New Cray Pics! @_@

Look! A section for non-puffer and/or non-aquarium photos! Oh joy!
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J-P
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New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by J-P » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:09 pm

IMG_1443b.jpg
IMG_1444b.jpg
IMG_1442b.jpg
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by Lil' Swimz$ » Mon Feb 28, 2011 11:18 pm

Hahah, funny.
Ha ha, he he! DAncE whEn yoU're HAPpppy! He he he! DAnce, danCE, DANCe!

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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by J-P » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:17 pm

2 molted today!

I noticed they are "blue" with the new shell that slowly turns brown. Sooooo... I wonder if the "blue marbled cray" is actually a false perception used to make sales?
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by J-P » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:30 pm

blue cray?

most likely not...
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by Pufferpunk » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:41 pm

Are you going to be feeding those to your fish? I think you really like them.
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by J-P » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:48 pm

actually no.. I won't be.

But yes, they are my new love :) I am going to try and breed them out.

I currently have 2 smaller ones, one mid sized one and one VERY LARGE Mother.

RTR would love these critters. For something that is genetically identical, they have different growth rates and personalities.

There is more to the story than I can say on the forum, but they are impressive.
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by Flutter » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:20 pm

J-P wrote:There is more to the story than I can say on the forum, but they are impressive.
I hate when people do things like that. Or if they say something along the lines of "oh you don't want to know".

:badboy:
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by J-P » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:29 pm

LOL!! ok.. spank me. But don't tell the BF he may want in on the fun.


Anyway, it is my belief that these little gals will change the shape of human history. It might not be in our life time, but it will happen.

I'll have to wait until the 2nd generation until I can know for sure that these are marbled crays.

At 3rd generation... I'll need financing ;)
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by geronimo69 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:25 am

J-P wrote:LOL!! ok.. spank me. But don't tell the BF he may want in on the fun.


Anyway, it is my belief that these little gals will change the shape of human history. It might not be in our life time, but it will happen.

I'll have to wait until the 2nd generation until I can know for sure that these are marbled crays.

At 3rd generation... I'll need financing ;)
I'm already at generation 3 or 4 for mine. I noticed they turn blue the higher protein content in their diet. As noted above, they grow at different rates, etc. They will also compete for food, but not injure each other. They're my #1 source of food for my puffers!
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by sevenyearnight » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:00 am

I had an "electric blue" crawdad before when I lived ot west, had him for about a year before I moved and he went to live at the lfs as a store pet.
He was very small when I got him, maybe about 2", he was much larger when I rehomed him. He was never any color other than bright electric blue at all times. Before and after moulting. He even had a bit of purple on his tummy. He was so fabulous and beautiful. I still think about him. I miss Chachi :(

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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by RTR » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:04 am

I'm already captive to one line of shrimp - the red-claw Macros - I really do not need another fascinating invert to deal with.

I doubt that the individuals are really as biologically uniform as they would seem be from their shared genomes. Expression of a lot of traits varies markedly from individual to individual. The genome being uniform and unchanging genertion to generation does not really imply that the indiviuals must be equally uniform. Never forget that change and transcription error or variation does occur with environment and diet at least and likely multiple other factors. Cell have a loaf of non-nuclear genetic material. Parthenogenesis ensures a lot less variation than normal embryos have, but "less" does not mean the same as "always identical.and equal". There will be biological differences between embryos in the same batch, even with parthenogenesis. Then the progenital cells divide toward the cell which will become the embryo, the division cannot alway and eternally be perfectly uniform. Identical twins are identical geneticly, but they are not quite perfectly identical in all systems. Variation is always present, and for the species that is a positive thing. Changes in the environment will not be equally handled in all individuals even in clones. Total uniformity is a very high-risk option, and Mothr Nature has better sense that to adhere rigidly to that. Down that path lies extinction. Think about it.
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by J-P » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Of course genetic immobility leads to extinction. What is fascinating is the fact that they do clone themselves, all are female and are genetically identical.

http://www.utpa.edu/faculty/zfaulkes/marmorkrebs/

There are scientists studying them and I hope they find the answer to the question "how?" reasonably soon. The implications as a viable food source are staggering, and that is just for this species alone. If they can duplicate this trait in other animals, plans and food products, it is life altering. With the crays being held in an enclosed farming utility, one could presumably turn over millions of pounds of food yearly. Waste water from these plants could be used in hydroponic agriculture within the same building. The possibilities are mind blowing.

I suppose one of the main questions is if genetic modifications are handed down from parent to child?
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by RTR » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:49 pm

Genetic modifications are handed down by definition. If it is a modified genetic code, it can only replicate itself as is, provided that the modification is translatable (double helix, remember?) Some code can be repaired is the change does not readily translate/replicate.

Most genetic changes are negative, some are neutral, and some few are beneficial immediately. The negatives do not usually produce live offspring, but fail to generate a viable embryo and so disappear quickly. Some traits which appear to be negative (such as sickle-cell trait in humans) in nature in the wild have positive effects (in the case of sickle-cell trait, there is greater resistance to malaria). The picture is never quite as simple as we would like.

Parthenogenesis is a heavy burden for a species, as it strongly reduces diversity, and diversity has huge survival potential in the case of changing environments. But in stable ecosystems it has obvious values. But stability is relative. The dinosaurs did not really die out. The survivors or heirs we call birds.

Puffers and their near kin have radical genetic modifications, but are quite successful. Most of their kin nearby on the phylogenetic tree are only known as fossils - they are isolated survivors, where many variants did not make it to modern times. Change is often necessary for survival, but also can be fatal, as can be the failure to change. Life is programmed to change and grasp opportunities - but does not always make it. Humans are the first on this planet to at least in part remove themselves from nature. Whether we can survive the radical abuse we hand to nature remains an open question.
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by J-P » Sat May 21, 2011 11:27 pm

just a quick update... my gals are 4" at the moment. Only 2 left and becoming sexualy mature. They are starting to make homes / caves and they are not... NOT pleco safe. My albino BN just had its tail cut off, and one of the girls was posed to eat it outright.

Smaller shrimp and fast movers seem to be ok, but that is not guaranteed.



Edit: also of note... I am playing with self cloning / self propagating cherry trees. This is going to be interesting, but that is going to be a 10 year + trial.
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Re: New Cray Pics! @_@

Post by RTR » Sun May 22, 2011 7:12 am

I agree with just about any clawed critter can be unsafe beyond the routine or red-clawed fiddlers. My little red-clawed Macrobracium shrimp however seem safer than I expected. Their biggest issue is stealing food from the bottom feeders. I will not co-house them with any suckermouth cats, or most bottom feeders (or breeders - but I tend to house most such as species-only).
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