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Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:50 am
by Bleedingheartmommy
Thanks PP, I agree.
OK, they don’t eat them bc they don’t exist in their natural habitat. DPs are picky, and are never known as the “eat all cleanup crew”. PLUS planaria, TRUE REAL planaria isn’t a free swimming worm, so the DPS don’t mistake it for bloodworms etc, they’re very smart fish as most puffs are.
Now enough with the rock throwing guys, take that crap over to FB! I come here for good interaction and intelligent back and forth, not petty rudeness.
I point out that they’re dif from detritus worms bc you guys are talking like they belong there, and are totally missing that these can hurt the tiny puffs if they fall ill or when sleeping. It’s not about blaming, it’s the fact that these are parasitic worms whom are introduced and have no healthy place in your tank, the puffs eating them or not is a side note really. They are there, the puffs won’t eat them, and it’s not from overfeeding (though it will help the population grow). I’m not trying to be snide, I am simply someone who solely rescues and rehabs all FW fish, and have spent my fair share of time dealing with and teaching others about planaria.
If anyone cares how to eradicate them without hurting the puffs I can help... though help doesn’t seem to be what this thread is asking for
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:52 am
by picotverd
They don't eat them because Planaria don't exist in their natural habitat? Seriously? So, if I bring to a lion a cangaroo he won't eat it? This is only an example, understandme...
And what about other fish wich they do eat Planaria?
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:13 am
by Bleedingheartmommy
As I stated earlier... they don’t exhibit traits their natural food does. And again, they aren’t a cleanup crew, they are picky as hell. One of the first things we learn as puffer Keepers issss?!?! They are a specialty fish who’s behavior and specified needs must be worked around and anticipated. Expecting them to eradicate anything but small snails is something we all know better than to expect.
Just as a Miurus doesn’t eat snails in the wild, but occasionally in tank one or two have been known to pick them off- it’s not what they want but rather the movement that interests them to attack- not the taste of the snail. And these are fish not mammals, picky fish who have been conditioned to eat certain foods, they’re not opportunistic eaters as many smaller tropical fish are like bettas for example. I’m not trying to fight, simply pointing out that there is no sense in them eating a flat worm hard to remove from the substrate etc, and with no shell like a snail it has nothing protruding to use as a removal point, and no reflex where they fall to be eaten. Plus, why eat one of those when dads bringing blood worms and snails in a few hours?
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:52 am
by Iliveinazoo
Depends if the Kangaroo fights back, I bet there'd be loads of lions that wouldn't want to take on a full grown 6' male Red Kangaroo in his prime. I've seen a documentary where 1 lion killed and ate a Honey Badger, I've seen another documentary where a mother Honey Badger successfully fought off a lion to protect her young even though the lion dwarfed it. I'm guessing that the Lion thought that there's no way that she was going to risk injury when she knew that there would be easier meals in the future. Comparisons to nature are highly selective and all predatory fish aren't the same just like all birds of Prey aren't the same - a Secretary Bird will predate venomous snakes but I doubt that a Sparrowhawk would.
Since some Planaria are actually predators and feisty themselves then possibly your DP is thinking the same as the lion that I mentioned before - why risk injury when you know that you're going to get an easy meal soon enough that doesn't fight back?
Please see this link to a good article about Planaria:
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/ ... planarians
Some people that you will meet on Forums are very passionate about stocking levels and can appear to aggressively argue their case, this is carried out with the health of the fish in mind so please don't take too much offence.
In terms of stocking though you are on the high side - you have 83.5cm total length of fish in a 100 litre tank, given that you cannot fill the tank to the top and the regularly recommended maximum stocking density of 1cm of fish per litre then you are at, or above, 100% density. Given that you have predatory fish and are probably feeding high protein food then you might want to consider the more conservative figure of 2.5cm of fish per 4.55l (1" per gallon) that would allow a stocking density of 55cm total length of fish if you could provide all of the 100 litre water volume.
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:01 am
by Bleedingheartmommy
Iliveinazoo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:52 am
Depends if the Kangaroo fights back, I bet there'd be loads of lions that wouldn't want to take on a full grown 6' male Red Kangaroo in his prime. I've seen a documentary where 1 lion killed and ate a Honey Badger, I've seen another documentary where a mother Honey Badger successfully fought off a lion to protect her young even though the lion dwarfed it. I'm guessing that the Lion thought that there's no way that she was going to risk injury when she knew that there would be easier meals in the future. Comparisons to nature are highly selective and all predatory fish aren't the same just like all birds of Prey aren't the same - a Secretary Bird will predate venomous snakes but I doubt that a Sparrowhawk would.
Since some Planaria are actually predators and feisty themselves then possibly your DP is thinking the same as the lion that I mentioned before - why risk injury when you know that you're going to get an easy meal soon enough that doesn't fight back?
Please see this link to a good article about Planaria:
https://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/ ... planarians
Some people that you will meet on Forums are very passionate about stocking levels and can appear to aggressively argue their case, this is carried out with the health of the fish in mind so please don't take too much offence.
In terms of stocking though you are on the high side - you have 83.5cm total length of fish in a 100 litre tank, given that you cannot fill the tank to the top and the regularly recommended maximum stocking density of 1cm of fish per litre then you are at, or above, 100% density. Given that you have predatory fish and are probably feeding high protein food then you might want to consider the more conservative figure of 2.5cm of fish per 4.55l (1" per gallon) that would allow a stocking density of 55cm total length of fish if you could provide all of the 100 litre water volume.
Well said @Iliveinazoo!
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:27 am
by eieio
I don't know about other fish forums, but when members here become aware that someone has planaria, we tend to shift into a mode that is based upon the these facts:
1) the population of planaria is regulated by the amount of waste available (planaria food).
2) overstocking & overfeeding almost always leads to excessive waste (planaria food).
3) insufficient water changes and sand stirring exacerbate this condition.
4) over stocking also leads to other problems unhealthy to the fish, such as poor water parameters & stress.
So, though your original question may have been one of "food chain biology", many of us see a red flag indicating an overall health problem in that tank, and respond accordingly.
Sorry you didn't get the answer you're looking for.
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:32 am
by picotverd
Thanks Iliveinazoo, very interesting arguments about why could Planaria won't probably be on the interest of DPs. I only wanted to know if any owner had seen his DPs predating towards Planaria... Or wondered why some fish do and why a predator fish as it is a dward puffer doesn't predate them... I am not sure about the reason but you point to some interesting direction.
About the stocking from my tank, I think it is in the top, but they are in reasonable level of stocking. Centimeters per liter is not a rule but an orientation. It depens on the kind of fish and behavior, I would say; and also is important the quantity of plants and hiding places. My tank has a lot of hides and it is very densely planted. But more important, the behavior of the species involved wich is habitually very static...
I would ask to Bleedingheartmommy not to explain and teach for a fourth time that Planaria can damage the fish. I have understand. I don´t have a Planaria problem. Please stop using words as: fight, rocks throwing, crap, rudeness, etc. I would really appreciate it.
Note: sorry for my english.
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:36 am
by picotverd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNtt0kiyfYE The explanation could be something like this...
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:47 pm
by Pufferpunk
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 1:52 pm
by picotverd
Thanks for the info. Mine are Planaria sp. without doubt, they have decreased a lot and I have been a month with no Planaria presence and now I can see one or two some days... I had a filter problem wich i solved...
In this article it really doesn't explain, apart that Planaria is carnivorous, wich I now, why most of fish doesn´t attack them...
Here a photo from the very small population of my tank:
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 1:57 pm
by picotverd
My DPs are very sane and also my other companions, I would say...Here one image:
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Sat May 05, 2018 2:02 pm
by picotverd
And the other "friends", I haven't seen any fight between them, I think it is because the very dense planted tank... with lots of hiding...
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 10:54 am
by J-P
excellent images, you have a natural talent there
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 4:33 pm
by hadla
Very few of us do no water changes XD
Re: DPs and planaria
Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 6:06 pm
by Pufferpunk