BW plants???

Tain't fresh, and tain't marine! Talk about brackish setups.

BW plants???

Postby Adventim on Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:16 pm

Will my java fern and anacaris survive in light brackish water for my F8's?
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Postby Phaedrus on Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:19 am

Maybe, maybe not. They won't thrive, but they may survive. At 1.004 or so they will likely stop growing.

If all other conditions are good, you might have luck. But at the first sign of decay, you should pull them out because they will foul the water quickly.
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Postby Pufferpunk on Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:32 am

Jave fern will probably be ok, just won't grow as well as in FW. Anacharis will "melt" & pollute your tank. I am trying anubias (sp?) in mine (mostly cause I have tons & have a big hair alge problem in my F8 tank). So far it hasn't melted but some leaves have yellowed (not many). I think it's helping with the algae though!
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Postby nmonks on Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:44 am

There are literally dozens of common aquarium plants that do perfectly well in brackish water. It's a total myth that there are not, and one that annoys me profoundly. Many species are in fact brackish water plants in the wild, being either found primarily or frequently in brackish water: hairgrass, Bacopa, some of the crypts, Java fern, some of the Crinum spp, etc., etc.

At 1.003, you can have essentially anything that does well in hard water, so Amazon swords and Vallisneria are both good choices. At 1.005, you'd do best with brackish water specialists, such as those mentioned above. I have my own list here and one other aquarium forum has an equally good listing, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to include links to other forums.

The secret is to optimise all the other conditions. If your substrate, CO2 fertilisation, and lighting are inadequate to begin with, adding salt will probably stress the plants to death. But if you have a nice rich laterite and sand substrate, ideally with undertank heating, and increase your lighting to 2-3 watts per gallon, you can grow all kinds of plants in a brackish water aquarium.

Cheers,

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Postby Rocker on Fri Aug 04, 2006 7:48 am

Can you report on the success of plants at SG of 1.005-1.008. I sure the forum would be interested in plants that can thrive in those conditions as that is the SG we promote for Fig 8's. Your link only mentions plant upto 1.005
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Postby nmonks on Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:02 am

1.005 is surely adequate for figure-8 puffers? I cannot see any advantage to SG 1.008 over 1.005.

At that SG, lots of plants will do well. At 1.008, your list is shorter, to be sure, but Java ferns and Samolus valerandi, among others, are known to do well. Possibly Crinum calamistratum and Cryptocoryne ciliata would be options, given that they prefer brackish to fresh water. In the Aqualog brackish book, there's a nice long chapter on mid to high SG plants.

Cheers,

Neale

Quick edit: checked in Schafer, and yes, C. ciliata will go to 10 ppt salinity, ~ SG 1.008.
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Postby Pufferpunk on Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:58 am

Yes, most of us keep F8s sucessfully at 1.005. We welcome any links to other forums!
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Postby nmonks on Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:25 am

Hello Pufferpunk,

The excellent article on brackish plants is here:

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=143235

There are some surprises, like those lovely algae balls are said to be good in brackish water. Algae balls and ball-shaped fish -- what a combo!

Cheers,

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Postby Pufferpunk on Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:08 pm

Fantastic, thanks!
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Postby Phaedrus on Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:15 pm

Marimo balls?
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Postby Boxermom on Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:16 pm

Yeah, some call them algae balls and some call them moss balls.
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Postby nmonks on Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:18 pm

Oh, and don't forget seagrasses. Seagrass meadows are wonderful habitats and very authentic for pufferfish. You do need a 15 cm substrate though, and about 5 WPG lighting.

There's a nice review here:

http://www.reefland.com/rho/0305/main3.php

Cheers,

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Postby Pufferpunk on Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:20 pm

Won't the fish need sunglasses?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Postby crazy loaches on Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:08 am

nmonks wrote:The secret is to optimise all the other conditions. If your substrate, CO2 fertilisation, and lighting are inadequate to begin with, adding salt will probably stress the plants to death.


I know this thread is a couple month old but I was wondering... do you dose CO2 in your brackish tank (DIY/pressurized/Excel)? I aksed about that an a couple other forums and have yet to actually find anyone who has injected pressurized CO2 in a brackish tank, or DIY either. I am just getting my planted brackish started and so far have lots of jungle val, a crinum crinkle onion, a couple bannana plants, lots of java fern and a couple plants I am trying out from my big plant tank, anubias and dwarf sag. I have 2x 65W CF bulbs with a mirrored reflector over a 45G bowfront (bulbs are 6700K and 12,000K). Thats just about 3wpg and probably a bit higher since CF bulbs are more effecient at producing light per watt. Depending on how well the plants grow and if I plant it even more, I was debating on trying to inject CO2. I only have aragonite (the sugar sized sandy type aragonite). I plan on atleast using a healthy dose of excell dialy/every other day, and not really sure on the ferts yet. if the excell is good enough to provide adequate co2 and prevent algea then I'll probably just stick with that, but over the life of the tank I almost bet pressurized will be cheaper. Opinions?
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Postby nmonks on Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:37 am

I've never used CO2 in a fish tank, so can't answer this definitively. But my guess would be no, because:

1. Brackish-tolerant plants are ones that perform "biogenic decalcification" -- in other words, they remove bicarbonate from the water hardness as a source of carbon instead of (or supplemental to) any they get from dissolved CO2.

2. CO2 reduces pH, which is a bad thing in the average brackish tank.

So, provided you stuck with species that do the biogenic decalcification thing (like Elodea, Vallis, hardwater Amazon swords, and so on) you can probably do without the extra CO2. But I'm not an expert on this, so am open to correction!

Cheers,


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