Well water+ brackish

[Bear]

Figure 8's and natural water parameters (dissolved minerals/solids ect)? I thought there used to be a good sticky about this somewhere but perhaps I was mistaken. I not kept puffers for many years now and just recently got back in the water so to speak.
In the past I had very soft "city" water to deal with and I didn't take much notice about well water until now. I am currently living in an older house out in the "boonies" that is on a very old well. I don't believe that there is a water softener. Anyway my real question is about the hardness of the water with the added salt for a brackish tank, and if this is even something that I should be concerned about? I recall another article here about figure 8 and the salinity of the water helps compensate for the lack of all the other additives one would have have if they were to keep them in fresh water. I currently have a brackish tank with one figure 8 Are there recommended levels for KH or GH for figure 8's.

[RTR]

Do you have good liquid-based test kits? If so, what are the test result on your tap water?

TDS meters read Total Dissolved Solids, (i.e. TDS) but few hobbyists use these other than for testing salinity. It is not often required for light BW below specific as light as you are interested in, but is the most accurate technique for that measure.

Freshly drawn water may need to stand with some exposure to air and coming to at least near room or tank temperature before testing for best accuracy. My water for example comes out quite cold and may not give accurate result when that cold (especially in winter and spring). Ground water lags behind surface water temperatures seasonally.

In my experience, the KH (also called the carbonate/bicarbonate hardness) of light brackish water is as important as is the salinity. In such tanks, the stability of the KH is key. Although these fish can swim freely in the wild between FW to BW to SW, in captivity stability affects their activity and lifespan.

[Bear]

Thank you RTR. I am sorry for taking so long to thank you for answering my question, local phone/internet lines are being worked on to "improve service" and I have been with out internet until now.

I went to our LFS last week and inquired about the KH and GH tests, but they were out and told me they would be getting their order in the next few days. I went back today after reading your response and was very disappointed that they didn't have any in yet. So I went to the only other pet store in my area (petco) and was even more irritated with them not even having a spot on the shelf for the tests! Now I am kicking myself for not ordering them on line prior to this. I think I am also going to order a refractometer too while I'm at it, I am fed up with guessing and air bubbles with the hydrometer

Thank you again.

[RTR]

Good luck with the tank. F-8s are among my very strong favorite puffers. Unfortunately, access to test kits and supplies outside metropolitan area can be difficult. It is quite rare even in big cities for shops to really understand puffers and their (very few) close kin. Keep us posted...

[Bear]

YAY! I finally got a liquid KH test and a Refractometer, (my husband is awesome) now I am much more confident about my water changes and SG level in the tank. I was happy to see that my math (thanks again for all the stickies on this forum) was correct and my hydrometer wasn't as off as I was fearing.

I have tested my water coming from the well and my KH is 7ppm. I am not sure I have that interpenetrated correctly but it took 7 drops to change from blue to yellow.
The 16 gal brackish tank with a SG of .005 is reading a KH of about 8ppm.
Note: all other water values are 0 and Nitrate is just barely 5 after a water change. Oh and PH is at 8.2

So now for my old question what is an ideal KH level for my figure 8? I think I saw another post that RTR commented on regarding this but I don't remember where it is.
Thanks again.

[RTR]

There is no true "ideal" KH for these fish, they are highly adaptable to water chemistry so long as it is alkaline and not acidic. My low end BW is a bit higher KH than yours, but that in and of itself is relatively trivial. What is important is that it should be relatively stable over time. KH is normal FW & light BW stabilizer, so consistency of the reading counts for more than any specific number. As your titer is a bit lower than mine, you may drift down a bit faster. If you have a spare calendar, note the pH and KH of the tank on it routinely and be aware of downward drifting. Lowered KH calls for a water change.

KH stabilizes the captive conditions which in turn keeps the fish healthy and happy. As KH is consumed in nitrification (normal tank bacterial nitrification), the quantity present in the water decreases constantly at a fairly steady rate which tends to speed up over time. That is because older mature tanks tend to build up more and more bacterial species and counts over time as the level of dissolved organics increase. This can be cancelled out by periodically doing 2-3 water changes in a week rather than the usual one. That effectively re-sets the tank to a "younger" more stable condition. I tend to do this every 3-6 months in most puffer tanks.

It seems bizarre (to me at least) that these fish, which in the wild can and do move routinely through a range of salinities, when in captivity do so much better with stable water parameters. For me it has been full normal for decades. There obviously are more differences in the wild and captivity than we realize. In nature, eating, growing and maturing and breeding are the aim of life. In captivity, where we cannot yet breed these fish, long and healthy individual lives are more important. Water condition stability is thus more significant to hobbyists and their wet pet. The fish which we can breed in captivity do not have such long captive lives, especially the females. I keep my F-8s at specific gravity 1.003-1.005 and the KH within +/-1 (total range ~2. Make-up water is aimed at +2, water 50% partialed when the tank has dropped by one point ideally, or at least before it has droped a full 2 points. If it has dropped >1 point in a week, I'll do another water change a day or two later, and then add an extra change that week w/make-up only at +1 KH). Then single partial should do for another 3-6 months, That pretty much guarantees that the tank water stays "young", with low organics (which we cannot test for at home).

FWIW, YMMV

[Bear]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. I truly appreciate the knowledge you have shared.

[RTR]

Well, these are my very favorite puffers, and I have worked with them an awful lot - and I do mean a lot. I have kept somewhere up in the upper 40s of these superfish I think. A compulsion you might say.

[Bear]

I'm rather fond of them too. I fell in love with them about 9 years ago and I am so glad that I finally have one again. I enot the individual personality each has. Mine happens to be quite shy and timid. He\she is quite small still I look forward to watching him mature. And because you mentioned that they are a favorite here he is..

[purplecandle]

Awww cute!

[RTR]

Nice looking critter. Many shy puffs do eventually settle in and act a bit more brave. If they do not by ~ two years in your care, cover one end wall with tank backing. It may help.

Or, (my favorite technique) put another F-8 tank end-to-end with the existing one and get another F-8. They will interact.

[Bear]

Oh I like your favorite technique... I'll be sure to tell hubby that I need another tank and puffy so that Derpy is as happy as possible.

[RTR]

Since I had a dozen tanks when I got married, my wife knew what she was getting into.