I hope you can help me.
I'm setting up a new 32l tank for dwarf puffers some time in the future.
I have old filter matter from our mature tank in the filter and have been using aqua balls to help start the process up.
Everything has been going fine and the cycle was doing fine, but suddenly my ammonia has gone up, my nitrites are undetectable and my nitrates are up.
How on earth???
I've stopped adding the ammonia for the last 2 days but it doesnt seem to be making much difference.
I have some trumpet and apple snails and 3 plants which all look really happy and healthy.
Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks
fishless cycling issues
- Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32764
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- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
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burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
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Re: fishless cycling issues
Could you post more detail on how you're doing this fishless cycle?
Here's how it's usually done: library/water-filtration/fishless-cycling/
But there's also this: library/water-filtration/emergencycycle/
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
- sgtmyers88
- Moderator
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Re: fishless cycling issues
Hi you might wish to check out this as well! viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32416
WARNING: Puffers are mischievous little blimps with enchanting powers. You may not be content with having just one.
Re: fishless cycling issues
Thanks for that Im using liquid tests to keep checking it.
http://injaf.org/beginners-guides/the-n ... -for-fish/
I have been using the above as a guide on how much ammonia to add etc. Also using Aqua balls to help and, like I said, filter matter from an established tank (we would use this tank but obviously i dont want the puffers to eat all our other fish!!).
Today the ammonia and Nitrates have gone down slightly, but still no sign of Nitrites. All the plants look good, the snails are multiplying, and the water is very clear, but the Nitrites have gone really low.
http://injaf.org/beginners-guides/the-n ... -for-fish/
I have been using the above as a guide on how much ammonia to add etc. Also using Aqua balls to help and, like I said, filter matter from an established tank (we would use this tank but obviously i dont want the puffers to eat all our other fish!!).
Today the ammonia and Nitrates have gone down slightly, but still no sign of Nitrites. All the plants look good, the snails are multiplying, and the water is very clear, but the Nitrites have gone really low.
-
- Mentor
- Posts: 6155
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
Re: fishless cycling issues
I am sorry, I don't see the problem. Part but not all of your cycle is active The nitrite spike did not occur - but the nitrates are increasing, so the bacteria to oxidize nitrite to nitrate are present, and may or may not be sufficiently numerous to support fish.
When you have or add ammonia what are the readings for ammonia, numbers please, before and aftter. What is the water pH? What is the KH? And what were the original pH, and the original KH readings before you started?
You say on July 21 that the ammonia and nitrate have gone down. From what to what? Only numbers matter. Have you done a water change? If so, how much? Topped up the tank?
This is not magic, it is relatively simple, but you and we have to be able to follow the numbers.
When you have or add ammonia what are the readings for ammonia, numbers please, before and aftter. What is the water pH? What is the KH? And what were the original pH, and the original KH readings before you started?
You say on July 21 that the ammonia and nitrate have gone down. From what to what? Only numbers matter. Have you done a water change? If so, how much? Topped up the tank?
This is not magic, it is relatively simple, but you and we have to be able to follow the numbers.
Where's the fish? - Neptune
-
- Mentor
- Posts: 6155
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
Re: fishless cycling issues
Where's the fish? - Neptune
- Pufferpunk
- Queen Admin
- Posts: 32764
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
- Gender: Female
- My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles - Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
- Location: Chicago
- Contact:
Re: fishless cycling issues
I would not stop adding ammonia until the cycle has completed (0 ammonia after 24 hours of adding) or you'll be starting all over again.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
-
- Mentor
- Posts: 6155
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:39 pm
- Gender: Male
- Location (country): East Coast, USA
Re: fishless cycling issues
Basically I agree w/Pufferpunk in that you need to have the unoxidized waste material present to feed the bacteria.
But hobbyists with little or no background in science and math tend to forget that the scales we use are orders of magnitude. A hobby grade test kit for ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate reads concentrations with exponents - powers of ten. The zero readings on these dissolved materials are labeled with the lowest concentrations which that particular kit can read (detect). It is not, repeat not, a true zero. It does not mean that the kit show that ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate is not present. It reads zero if the concentration is too low to be detected with that kit. That is a huge difference.
If we were dealing with money on an order of magnitude scale, if your bank balance were 1-9.9 dollars, it would not show on a report which read only in 10 dollar increments, but would show any money from 10 dollars and up. A scale readind 100 dollar increments would show zero for balances below 100 dollars. In the real world, 99 dollars is not zero. The same logic applies to our test kits, Many read only in some particular range which is important to us. The metabolite test kits read at concentrations which are safe or toxic for most fish. Any given species or even individual fish will have some level at which certain materials are toxic. Those are what we must check to be able to keep most fish healthy. But test levels of "zero" do not often mean that none of the material is present - it only means that the particular test cannot detect that concentration of the material are below detectable levels. The undetectable levels are below levels dangerous to most fish, so the tests kits work for us.
But do not kid yourself that a zero test result means none of the material is present. It means only that the water is safe for most fish.
HTH
But hobbyists with little or no background in science and math tend to forget that the scales we use are orders of magnitude. A hobby grade test kit for ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate reads concentrations with exponents - powers of ten. The zero readings on these dissolved materials are labeled with the lowest concentrations which that particular kit can read (detect). It is not, repeat not, a true zero. It does not mean that the kit show that ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate is not present. It reads zero if the concentration is too low to be detected with that kit. That is a huge difference.
If we were dealing with money on an order of magnitude scale, if your bank balance were 1-9.9 dollars, it would not show on a report which read only in 10 dollar increments, but would show any money from 10 dollars and up. A scale readind 100 dollar increments would show zero for balances below 100 dollars. In the real world, 99 dollars is not zero. The same logic applies to our test kits, Many read only in some particular range which is important to us. The metabolite test kits read at concentrations which are safe or toxic for most fish. Any given species or even individual fish will have some level at which certain materials are toxic. Those are what we must check to be able to keep most fish healthy. But test levels of "zero" do not often mean that none of the material is present - it only means that the particular test cannot detect that concentration of the material are below detectable levels. The undetectable levels are below levels dangerous to most fish, so the tests kits work for us.
But do not kid yourself that a zero test result means none of the material is present. It means only that the water is safe for most fish.
HTH
Where's the fish? - Neptune