puffer poison?
If the bacteria needed for the poison is found in algae that live on shell fish then there must be different types of bacteria. One that is capable of living in FW and the other in SW.
If the mussels are salt water and fed to FW puffers then what do you think could happen, assuming that the source has the algae containing bacteria?
If the mussels are salt water and fed to FW puffers then what do you think could happen, assuming that the source has the algae containing bacteria?
Some call it a product of a mis-spent youth, I call it Rock n Roll !
- Corvus
- Mentor
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:35 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Planet earth; mostly Germany recently
To be more exact the FW poison is produced by dinoflagellates (kind of primitive algae), several types of these dinoflagellates can produce the toxin. Some marine dinoflagellates are the same that make the 'red tide' at some coasts, which makes shellfish poisonous (PSP), because they filter the algae from the water. PSP toxin is the same poison as in our fw puffers. So, I assume feeding marine inverts to FW puffers can make them poisonous to some degree.
The marine puffer toxin is produced by 'real' bacteria.
The marine puffer toxin is produced by 'real' bacteria.
- Boxermom
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:34 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
Dr. Ebert says "Bacteria (e.g. Pseudomonas are necessary for the synthesis of the toxin... toxicity is seasonal and locally variable, and puffers are themselves resistant to the poison."
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
- Corvus
- Mentor
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:35 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Planet earth; mostly Germany recently
Pseudomonas are the ones for the marine puffers only (tetrodotoxin). try searching for saxitoxin in books/inet. This is the one of the fw puffers.Boxermom wrote:Dr. Ebert says "Bacteria (e.g. Pseudomonas are necessary for the synthesis of the toxin... toxicity is seasonal and locally variable, and puffers are themselves resistant to the poison."
- Boxermom
- Former Staff Member
- Posts: 2182
- Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 8:34 pm
- Location: Wisconsin
- Contact:
"In this case the poison is Saxitoxin, a substance whose effects parallel those of Tetradotoxin and which is likewise synthesized via bacteria, found in the algae growing on shellfish and ingested by virtue of the puffer's feeding habits."
Tina
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
Puffers: Auriglobus silus x1, Tetraodon travancoricus x1, Tetraodon turgidus x1, Tetraodon miurus x1, Tetraodon nigroviridis x2, Tetraodon baileyi x2, Tetraodon lineatus x1, Tetraodon palembangensis x1
- Corvus
- Mentor
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 10:35 am
- Gender: Male
- Location: Planet earth; mostly Germany recently
That's interesting. The German version of the book differs: No word about "growing on shellfish" but "which gets via algae into the shellfish". That is more precise. But: Dinoflagellates only have one cell with a nucleus, they are algae and no bacteria. Their relatives are the algae in many corals.Boxermom wrote:"In this case the poison is Saxitoxin, a substance whose effects parallel those of Tetradotoxin and which is likewise synthesized via bacteria, found in the algae growing on shellfish and ingested by virtue of the puffer's feeding habits."
Saxitoxin is produced by dinoflagellates in fw as well as in sw. It is filtered by shellfish and they are consumed by puffers. If we eat shellfish with lots of saxitoxin we get sick, which is called: Paralytic shellfish poisoning or PSP. Puffers are immune to that but store the toxin and become poisonous themselves.