dog-faced -clean-up-crew-

[Adam_J]

Ok guys here is the "dish", there are many genus of flat fish which are called by the common name flounder. These animals while having similar biology come from many different type of niches, including freshwater rivers to temperate marine environments. Uttering a statement about general care on flounders/soles/flatfish like, “All Flounders thrive in ‘X’ environment” is just about as ignorant, not knowing, as the statement, “All Puffers thrive in ‘X’ environment.” We know that puffers, come from multiple different niches and that individual species have to be identified to determine proper care, the same is true of flounders and soles;

***Some are strictly freshwater, very few...not commonly seen specimens
***Some are strictly Marine
***Some are Brackish
***Some start there lives in freshwater and as they mature end up living in marine niches

…Since each species is different it MUST be positively identified before purchase (NOT AFTER!). If you cannot do this, then you cannot provide the proper care for this animal.

As I mentioned before many fish bear the common name flounder…some are soles (not even in the flounder family) let’s discuss the animals commonly seen in, captivity and there care. Those that are both appropriate and inappropriate:

Robert Fenner, “About Freshwater "Flounders" of the Families Achiridae, Soleidae, Cynoglossidae, Pleuronectidae. Yes, there are maybe four true freshwater Flatfishes, though strictly speaking they are not true "flounders", as well as many brackish species that venture upriver temporarily.”

The most common animals sold as Flounder to us aquarists is not actually a flounder but a Sole, those that belong to the genus Achiridae. A list below includes some that are commonly sold as “Freshwater Soles”…though mind you not all belong in freshwater;

***Not a complete list, but rather what “you guys” will more than likely see…




Achirus achirus, the Drab Sole

To 7” in length, this is the most common sole seen for sale in American Shops. It is deciveingly sold as a purely freshwater animal though larger adults 4”+ will thrive and live much longer in a slightly brackish environment. 1.0005 to 1.0016. They are very prone to bacterial infections from coarse substrate often used by aquarists.



Achirus lineatus, Lined Sole

This animal hails from the gulf of Mexico and while it commonly ventures into FW for very abbreviated periods of time, it belongs in high brackish environment, eventually marine!!! To 9” in legnth.

Achiropsis nattereri, S.A. Freshwater Sole

The only purely freshwater animal in this genus, however it reaches 10” as an adult


More Soles;

Aserragodes therese, Therese’s Sole/Hawaiin Sole

To only 3” in legnth, is born in and requires a full marine environment



Genus Cynoglossidae, the Tongue Fish

Encounterred worldwide in many boddies of water (topical and sub-tropical), does venture into freshwater but most species of the genus will live stunted lives if not given high brackish or full marine environments as adults, 4”+ in legnth.


Genus Pleuronectidae, (P. Ritteri)

VERY, VERY RARELY is encounterred in freshwater streams though it has been reported, mostly encounterred in Baja California. Requres a full marine environment and reaches 16” in legnth.


****I, in all my research and experience, have not encounterred a true freshwater flounder that demands the care level and reaches the size that has been posted in this thread. Apparently neither has Robert Fenner. If you know of such an animal, and have it’s exact species name, please educate us.*******

Adam J

[Pufferpunk]

Wow, thanks for doing all that "sole" searching for us!

(Couldn't help myself!) :15:

[OraLacerta]

Thanks for the info Adam and wow PP, what a pun!

There's some really helpful pictures to ID these guys in the National Audubon Society's book on native US fishes. That's what I picked up to ID the flounders they had in the petstore. I couldn't remember the scientific name but their common name is also "hog choker" and I believe they're the "Achirus achirus, the Drab Sole".

Really fascinating creatures and I would love to own one of the larger species some day. I can't wait until mine reaches his full size!

~Michelle

[Adam_J]

Wow, thanks for doing all that "sole" searching for us!

(Couldn't help myself!) :15:

I get it, lol...I also think Bob made the same joke on WWM once too.

[puffergeek]

Hehe. I even saw that pun on a sign at the Birch Aquarium in San Diego...

[sassiegemstone]

I do not know the species of the flounder I had. It was sold to me as a freshwater but thrived better the more salt I introduced to the tank.

I had to remove the current Flounder out of the new tank. It was on the side of the tank and my Boxfish Puffer attacked it.

The current Flounder we have is AKA as a Hog Choker. It is currently in the 35 gallon.

[TMMappa]

LArge cowries work the best for algae control in tanks with puffers! I have a Golden, Panda, and a Clown trigger in my tank and my cowries keep it clean. Their shells are very thick and they have a stronger hold on to the substrate than any snail Ive ever seen.

[Pufferpunk]

Do they eat hair algae? I've got a problem in one of my reeftanks.

[monsterpuffer]

Whatever happened to Adam and that other guy who was suppose to be a mod?