DP tank size/stocking?

[tithra]

Hello! I have been wanting dwarf puffers for awhile now, but haven't been able to find them locally. My LFS just told me they will be getting some in so I am getting a 20 gallon long ready for them.

I typically don't like to cross post on forums, but I posted on a different puffer forum stating that I was planning 2-3 DPs for a 20 gallon, and was told I could have 8-12. Granted, I do not even want that many, but now I am confused about stocking guidelines for these guys. I was under the impression that the recommendation is 5 gallons per fish. Would love some input on this! I just want to make sure I have my facts straight.

[tithra]

also, my initial question on the other forum was what you do about sexing juveniles (from what I read it is difficult to sex young/small fish), I want either a male and female or two females and one male, and am concerned I will not accurately choose the right sex. I was told that 2 males in a 20 gallon would not be an issue because it is so much room? is this true?

[bertie 83]

8-12 would be a recipe for disaster, good on you for researching further. Only one male should be kept if poss but it does depend on the individual fish. I have kept male pairs with success but they were wimps. They are often too young to sex in shops. I would go for max 4 in a 20g, you have to consider once decorated it will hold much less than 20g of water

[RTR]

+1 to Bertie's comments above. The idea of 8-12 DPs in a 20-lomg is madness! To me that is asking for massive pollution. The maximum I have ever done is 4 DPs (1 male and 3 female in a 33XL which was heavily planted and had feeding cones at each end and was quite densely planted. That was my standard breeding tank for DPs, although one or two set-ups had 2M and 2 females- I could not always get them sexed correctly. not all of the equally-sexed tanks worked well for breeding. That seemed to depend on how feisty the underdog male was.

I started with 18 young DPs divided between two each adjacent 40-gallon longs. I moved the males to one tank and the female to the other. Water circulated between the two tanks, but the fish could not That allowed each sex to detect the other's pheromones but have no physical contact with the other sex once I could tell them apart. Excess males were returned to the LFS, but some spares were handy as not all the breeding set-ups were successful. Feeding was live black worms 3 days in a row, with the 4th day skipped, but small/young ramshorn snails were always in the tanks. The standard live worm cones were used, with smallish reptile water dish beneath them to catch excess worms before they could escape to the substrate (some did escape to establish in the substrate).

Catching the baby DPs was a chore. I went to soda-bottle traps for catching them. Several net evaders grew up in the breeder tanks. I decided to leave DP breeding to the pros, but it was an interesting experiment.

FWIW, YMMV.

[tithra]

Thanks for your replies! I think at this point my plan is two in a 20, it's good to get confirmation that 8-12 is a crazy suggestion. Luckily I am not a noob when it comes to fish keeping and have some basic sense, but it honestly upsets me a bit that there's people giving people that sort of info

I'll have to ask my LFS before I buy if they'll take returns if I end up with the wrong gender combo.

[Pufferpunk]

I can't even start to imagine the torn fins & bites/death in a tank like that!

[RTR]

Huge +1 to Pufferpunk's comments. My DP tanks were quite densely planted - mine bred in dense thickets of stem plants with Java Moss tangled in it- that was always the male's chosen site. With a dozen fish even in a 30/33XL, you could have dead fish rotting in the dense plantings w/o being able to see them. The thought of that curls my toes! Without dense planting I did not get high offspring survival rates, even with only 4 adult fish. With 12 adult I wonder if they would have bred at all or had any fry survival. Remember, I had only 8-10 DPs in each 40-long maturation and sex divided tank.

I don't much care for overstocked tanks, even for schools of fish.

[tithra]

trust me, I'm a big fan of understocking I currently have a 40 and a 20 long with one betta in each and a 75 with two goldfish (which I am hoping to upgrade to a 180 when I save the money up). Overstocked tanks are just a disaster waiting to happen on many levels imho... we're dealing with closed systems in an aquarium.

Anyway, thank you all for your input, it's much appreciated! My LFS was supposed to get DPs in this week, but unfortunately didn't so I'll have to wait for next week. At this point I am thinking that if I don't feel confident sexing them I will just get one and set up a 5.5 gallon. If they're large enough that I feel like I can sex them I will get two for a 20 gallon. I'll make the decision when I see them I've never actually seen them in person!