T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

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Pufferpunk
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Pufferpunk »

That Fishbase pic is wrong & not of a fluviatilis, I had my GSPs, since they were 2".
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Figures. Why does Fishbase have to always be wrong ....

Anyways.. GSP or not, that isn't even the fish that I was speaking about in the first place when I posted. I just had 2 of them come with the Sabahensis. Oh yea , and do ya think that Sabahensis puffs come from a place called 'Sabah' which is like northern Borneo ? Cause Palembang is prob. where we get Palembangensis eh ?

I hate to sound like I actually know what I'm talking about lol, but I dont think that the fish Hilly has listed as a T. Sabahensis is really one. OR it is a T. Sabahensis and the one I have here is something entirely different. Hilly's T. Sabahensis looks to me like it is closer to looking like these big GSP's with their side donuts. Though it seems that any large puffer whom has a design involving spots with a white belly underneath.. will create those 'donut' looking spots when they grow larger and the skin stretches. As the skin stretches with age, new skin needs to form right ? Well, my guess is that .. THAT specific area that needs new skin created was originally an area of skin that produced a white. As he grew, the spot moved to the middle of a spot... so that when new skin forms... it is in the center and its white.

Make sense ? If not - its ok.. you can tell me I'm crazy :P

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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Myaj »

That doesn't sound right, because with many fish and animals, they markings they are born with are the markings they'll have all their life. They don't grow new skin in the center of a "spot" that's a different color, unless there's been trauma to change the pigmentation.

They can change, that's for sure, but not with a new "blank" spot in the middle of some previously colored areas.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

They seem to only show those kinds of spot along their sides, right where the 2 colors separate. I haven't seen any with those marks on their heads or backs.

Please look at my fish, I added 4 new photos to my pedia. They are of what I believe is a T. Sabahensis.

http://www.thepufferforum.com/forum/ug. ... ella/Saba/
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Hilly »

I dont really care if my fish is a Ceylon or a GSP with different marking due to regional variations. All I know is what I have learnt myself on this fish but of all the pics I have seen of Fluviatilis they all keep the distinct bands across the top. Several GSP variations all keep the more individual spots in varying forms. Mine has a labyrinth pattern all over it, no banding, no spots. If he is a variant of just either Fluviatilis or Nigroviridis thats one big change in markings to suit its environment.

It's a possibility though, whatever he is i'm not really that bothered anymore. Ceylon GSP, Sabahensis or the possibility of something else that isnt listed. He is what he is.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Nick »

Given his thriving in fresh water when we know how poorly GSP and ceylon react to that at his size makes me very doubtful he's a variation on them, personally.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Hilly »

Nick wrote:Given his thriving in fresh water when we know how poorly GSP and ceylon react to that at his size makes me very doubtful he's a variation on them, personally.
Adapt to survive. Not trying to talk myself out of what he is just throwing in ideas.

Puffer equivalent of the Borg. :D
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Nick »

It's possible, I suppose, but I have seen many, many GSP in fresh water at fish stores, and any over 3" were definately dying, not surviving.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Ok Ok Ok...
I am not trying to bash anyones puffer or anything...

Hilly, your puff is beautiful and I wish he was mine :P and THAT is why I want to know what he/she is. You might not care anymore, but I would still like to know. I like to be 100% sure. The only reason I question what kind it is... is because I too have a weird one. And the 2 have similarities BUT they also have differences. Now when I finish all this research you guys might thank me... but I WILL solve the riddle... even if I have to buy a plane ticket to SABAH, Malaysia... go fishing, catch your fish and mine to prove my point :P

I just want to know every last little detail I can. What can I say, I like puffers a lil too much.

Even if you have two fish that are in fact the same species.. BUT they are from 2 different locations...THEN they might just adapt differently. Correct me if I am wrong but uh... wouldn't that eventually make them 2 different fish? It would sure suck for one if we all assumed it was the other. Especially if one needed FW and the other SW. No ?

Did you guys even look at my fish ? Tell me you have seen one before. He looks kind of like Hilly's but at the same time, Hilly's looks partially like a big GSP. So... the question is ... what is he and how do you get him? If we can get even just one batch of baby GSP's or Sabah's...just ONE stinking batch, then we can see about 200 different patterns.. and see just exactly how different they can be.

GSP + GSP = GSP Right?
DP + DP = DP
MBU + MBU = MBU

Simple math, no ?
But what if...

GSP + Fluviatilis = ?

So is he :

Tetraodon Nigroviridis + ? = Tetraodon Sabahensis

OR

Tetraodon Nigroviridis + Tetraodon Sabahensis = ?

? + ? = ? This is a question I am tryin to answer. Can they even cross breed? We don't know. Or do we ? Cause personally I'd love to see a Dwarf Mbu :P

Would we get huge Dwarf puffers, mini Mbu's or both ?

So... what say you ?
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Nick »

It's possible GSP and Ceylon can cross breed, in that they are similar size, but it's unlikely you'd get a fish that would have smaller more complex patterns than either parent has on it's own. Not impossible, but unlikely. GSP and Sabahensis again potentially have crossbreed potential due to compatible size, and would create very confusing looking hybrids, but there is no reason to think this happens widely in the wild. Guessing at potential hybrid fish is entertaining, but is unlikely to show much results. Hybrids are unlikely to occur in the wild because even when very genetically similar fish exist in overlapping habitats, they are usually only separate species because they work in separate ecological niches which disincline them from crossbreeding. Cichlids are a classic example of genetically similar fish that have almost no tendency to crossbreed naturally. When placed under artificial aquarium conditions, these hybrids happen all the time, but they are still atypical in the wild. Getting a DP or a Mbu to crossbreed with anything, even in captivity, is likely impossible. The size differences are simply too drastic.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Nick wrote:It's possible GSP and Ceylon can cross breed, in that they are similar size, but it's unlikely you'd get a fish that would have smaller more complex patterns than either parent has on it's own. Not impossible, but unlikely. GSP and Sabahensis again potentially have crossbreed potential due to compatible size, and would create very confusing looking hybrids, but there is no reason to think this happens widely in the wild. Guessing at potential hybrid fish is entertaining, but is unlikely to show much results. Hybrids are unlikely to occur in the wild because even when very genetically similar fish exist in overlapping habitats, they are usually only separate species because they work in separate ecological niches which disincline them from crossbreeding. Cichlids are a classic example of genetically similar fish that have almost no tendency to crossbreed naturally. When placed under artificial aquarium conditions, these hybrids happen all the time, but they are still atypical in the wild. Getting a DP or a Mbu to crossbreed with anything, even in captivity, is likely impossible. The size differences are simply too drastic.
I know about the size difference thingy being a problem, silly.. I was just using it as an illustration. Everyone knows what DPs and MBUs look like. And shame on you for comparing cichlids to puffers :P (j/k... tho puffs beat cichlids anyday)

And
they are usually only separate species because they work in separate ecological niches which disincline them from crossbreeding.
Maybe that is precisely the reason no one can get them to reproduce in an aquarium. It might look like you have the same fish.... but really you aren't even close.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Pufferpunk »

I think they look close enough to be the same species.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Nick »

I agree that they look close enough, but the differences in how they thrive seem to monkey wrench that idea. Perhaps they are upriver FW - downriver brackish/salt water variations on the same fish, with a full spectrum of "in between" fish with varying SG tollerences in between?
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Pufferpunk »

I know Hilly's prefer FW, what is Umb keeping his in?
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Nick »

Dunno, but Fishfan tried theirs with brackish with the same poor results as Hilly, so that's two more fish with that FW preference. They seem to react opposite GSP, getting stressed as soon as SG goes up much at all.
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