T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

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Umbrella
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Hilly wrote:I counted top and bottom dorsal fin rays.

An Abei IMO looks nothing like a GSP it looks like this and a 4" Abei is a big Abei. Click im my gallery in the Abei section did it look anything like it.

In terms of morphs of Fluviatilis family, I received some pics from a member on here (Sean) when I got mine and was researching and since he sees more rare puffers than all of us.... he delivered the goods.

I have temporarily put them in an album for perusal. Have a look at marking variations.
Album
have a quick look but PLEASE DO NOT post them up on the forum as I havent got permission to do that.
OMG Hilly - those photos are GOLD. We could learn a ton. Very interesting... I am excited now !! :P
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Umbrella
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5 Auriglobus Silus
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

manutius wrote:wow they look very much like the BW puffers at London Aquarium that I had trouble Id_ing a while back

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiRb5XEexgY

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuandkala ... 577568104/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuandkala ... 577568104/

They had them labelled as Ceylon I think, which is wrong for sure
In my opinion - These particular ones are the Burmese Giant GSPs... not a Sabahensis lol or Ceylons.

Burma as in Myanmar, the largest country in SE Asia.

Hopefully NOT as in :
Burma, Tajikistan
Burma, Samangan Afghanistan
Burma, Qaraghandy Kazakhstsan ( lol, say hello to Borat for me ) :shock:
Burma, Jordan
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Hilly »

You wouldnt see that variety of puffers anywhere else other than Asia. :D

From those photos I could see a few more varaiants coming to light.
There could be many pufers that have not yet been clasified, they find new species all the time with other fish so why should puffers be any different. Just need some scientist type to get off their a$$ and go and classify them properly so we can give them proper names.

I bet they're cheaper than anywhere else too. 2 reasons to move there the fish and cheap Nissan GTR's

What would a puffer look like in a Borat Mankini. No, thats not an image I want in my head.
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Umbrella
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Hilly wrote:You wouldnt see that variety of puffers anywhere else other than Asia. :D

From those photos I could see a few more varaiants coming to light.
There could be many pufers that have not yet been clasified, they find new species all the time with other fish so why should puffers be any different. Just need some scientist type to get off their a$$ and go and classify them properly so we can give them proper names.

I bet they're cheaper than anywhere else too. 2 reasons to move there the fish and cheap Nissan GTR's

What would a puffer look like in a Borat Mankini. No, thats not an image I want in my head.
Lol, Borat Mankini Puffer.

But.. aw man... Isn't there a way we can just do the work and take the credit ?? What papers exactly need to be filled out? I'd fill em out, lol. That would be pimp.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Hilly »

It would be nice but I dont think we have the necessary academical or doctorate weight in the field to get it done.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Hilly wrote:It would be nice but I dont think we have the necessary academical or doctorate weight in the field to get it done.
DANGIT! I'm going to ask Eschmeyer what needs to be done. No joke. Eschmeyer I believe has named a few fish. That or they were named after him. I believe one very rare Rhinoceros Scorpionfish to be exact.

Anyways I took a look at my parameters today for the Giant GSP's.

They appear to be happy, showing white bellies just after feedeing them each 1 crayfish.

Salinity : 1.008
Temp : 76 F

I would list the parameters for nitrates and such but I just ran out of tests. I'll post the rest on Friday when I can go get some more tests.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Corvus »

Description of a new fish species:

- first you'll need material (fish) of which you must know exactly where they were caught. Fish from the aquarium trade are mostly useless, since the information by the traders if often wrong.

- Second, you'll have to examine all characters, fin rays, morphometrics, color. Sex should be determined, too, to see possible dimorphisms.

- Third, you'll need to read everything written about them (which is a good idea anyways even when losely discussing its ID on a forum), start with Dekkers and continue with later works. In this specific case I'd also read all taxonomic papes about T. nigroviridis. This is library work, such information is not available on the internet. All together this will likely be a few hundred pages.

- Step number four: you'll need to see and examine the holotypes and material of earlier works that seems most similar to your material just as you did with your fish in step 2. Luckily it is usually noted in the papers where to find the stored fish, but unfortunately they are spread all over the world, and most of them are likely in Europe.

. Number five: put all the data together, draw logical conclusions and write a scientific paper about the new species. This will be considered by other experts (referees) who say it's okay, it needs to be improved or it is crap. Depending on their decision it will be published, and you have named a new species (if it really is one). Your fish have to be available for future examinations, so when they are dead they need to be stored properly at an university.

That's how it's done.
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a fish a man, and he'll eat for weeks.
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Umbrella
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My Puffers: 12 T. Nigroviridis
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9 T. Biocellatus ( 6 are babies )
4 C. Assellus
18 C. Travancoricus
4 M. Cochinchinensis
5 Auriglobus Silus
4 Chelonodon Patoca
1 O. Cubicus
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Wow thanks for the info Corvus, it seems like you have done it before. :P That is a ton of work, but it is understandable ( so noobs don't gum up the works )

But do you think I could present the idea to one of the people whom is already an expert and can do all of that ? Of course .. finding that guy is going to be hard.. but not impossible. I can start with Eschmeyer and see what he says. I have spoken to him before about some things.

On another note... MY "Giant GSP's" DO like cooler water. The temp. was at 78 degrees F and I turned it down a little. I went back to check on them about 1/2 hour later and their bellies had gone from the brown/black to *almost* all white. So my guess is they prefer cooler water. I have it at 73 F and they seem very happy. I will continue to monitor them and post results.

**Mind you if they are a SW fish like Pufferpunk's, the Ocean does tend to be a tad bit cooler than lakes, streams and rivers** So maybe their secret is cool SW? I dunno. I could have swore Fishfan mentioned they originated upstream in FW. This is confusing lol grrrr!!! I will try to add a little salt to their cooler water and see what happens. If they don't like it then that answers that question... they would be FW and Def. not SW/BW. What is the temp on your SW GSP tank Pufferpunk ?

I also decided to teach them about Ghost Shrimps and their tastiness. Normally they ignored them ( probably because they didn't see them and/or lost sight of them ) So I held one at the surface with my fingers and almost lost my fingers. After they got a taste of the ghosties... it was on. They would swim uber fast to beat each other out just to get even a tiny ghostie. They will no longer let ghosties live in the tank, although sometimes they are a little slow at catching them off the bottom of the tank. But if the ghostie is near the surface ( like when you first throw one in there ) its game over ghostie. I even put a feeder fish in the tank for my needle nose garr and they PWND it before Mr. Needle could. I was like 'DAYUM' !
So the moral of the story is... they are VERY smart fish ( and definitely can remember ) and now whenever the instrument used to hold the ghost shrimp is in their sight, they get excited and cant wait to munch the ghosties (after all I like my fingers, hehe). Also, now that I did that it is impossible to add anything new to the tank. Previously I could add whatever I wanted except a crayfish or a crab and they would be peaceful and ignore it. But now whatever hits their tank's water, is going to get obliterated. ( poor molly )
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Corvus »

Umbrella wrote:Wow thanks for the info Corvus, it seems like you have done it before. :P That is a ton of work, but it is understandable ( so noobs don't gum up the works )
I think it's mostly to have as good results as possible and to some degree reliable species definitions. If there was an easier way, it would be great for everybody.
Umbrella wrote: But do you think I could present the idea to one of the people whom is already an expert and can do all of that ? Of course .. finding that guy is going to be hard.. but not impossible. I can start with Eschmeyer and see what he says. I have spoken to him before about some things.
You could ask for the opinion of an expert with field experience, who knows where which of the common fishes in SE Asia occur. My choice would be Maurice Kottelat (Switzerland) or Gerald R. Allen (retired). Also ask (PM) Neale Monks, a Mentor here, who wrote/edited a book on brackish water fishes.
Umbrella wrote: On another note... MY "Giant GSP's" DO like cooler water. The temp. was at 78 degrees F and I turned it down a little. I went back to check on them about 1/2 hour later and their bellies had gone from the brown/black to *almost* all white. So my guess is they prefer cooler water. I have it at 73 F and they seem very happy. I will continue to monitor them and post results.
Check the oxygen (I know the common tests are far from accurate). As the Fishfans suggested it may all be primarily about the oxygen content which in aquaria is often lower than in natural habitats. E.g. Monos, typical bw to marine fishes often die due to a lack of oxygen, e.g. when salinity is increased but not enough gaseous exchange occurs. This mostly happens with the large adults, and not the young, which apparently need less oxygen.
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give a fish a man, and he'll eat for weeks.
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4 C. Assellus
18 C. Travancoricus
4 M. Cochinchinensis
5 Auriglobus Silus
4 Chelonodon Patoca
1 O. Cubicus
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Corvus wrote:Check the oxygen (I know the common tests are far from accurate). As the Fishfans suggested it may all be primarily about the oxygen content which in aquaria is often lower than in natural habitats. E.g. Monos, typical bw to marine fishes often die due to a lack of oxygen, e.g. when salinity is increased but not enough gaseous exchange occurs. This mostly happens with the large adults, and not the young, which apparently need less oxygen.
Ahhh yes! I think I mentioned one time before that mine like to hang out right underneath the waterfall the filters create...and there just so happens to be bubbles there. Bubbles mean extra Oxygen right ? I think I will look into aerating my tank more in addition to the temperature thing and THEN post my results. Good call Corvus, as usual.

I take it water would be just like air? The colder it is... the easier it is to breathe and the hotter it is... the harder it gets to breathe ? Or no ?

:D Thx again
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Corvus »

Umbrella wrote:I take it water would be just like air? The colder it is... the easier it is to breathe and the hotter it is... the harder it gets to breathe ? Or no ?
Yes, higher temperature => less oxygen; more salt => less oxygen; less current => less oxygen, more organic input (crowding, no water changes) => less oxygen (oxygen is used up while organics are broken down). So, lack of oxygen as the Fishfans pointed out would be a possible explanation for these fish apparently disliking more salt, higher temperatures. Could be checked by measuring oxygen... bad thing is these hobby test kits are apparently not very reliable.

Bubbles make the air/water surface much larger and therefore gaseous exchange with the air in the room is faster. Oxygen used up in the tank is brought back to equilibrium much faster with bubbles (in or outside of a skimmer) and current.
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Pufferpunk »

**Mind you if they are a SW fish like Pufferpunk's, the Ocean does tend to be a tad bit cooler than lakes, streams and rivers** So maybe their secret is cool SW? I dunno. I could have swore Fishfan mentioned they originated upstream in FW. This is confusing lol grrrr!!! I will try to add a little salt to their cooler water and see what happens. If they don't like it then that answers that question... they would be FW and Def. not SW/BW. What is the temp on your SW GSP tank Pufferpunk ?
I kept mine at around 78-80 degrees, just like all my other fish. To tell you the truth--
GSPs have rarely been found in the ocean--if ever. It's just that the filtration for high-end BW fish is of better quality (live rock/sand, skimmer), which is why I recomend bumping the SG up the few extra points to marine, from high-end BW.

BTW, I rehomed those puffers years ago.
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18 C. Travancoricus
4 M. Cochinchinensis
5 Auriglobus Silus
4 Chelonodon Patoca
1 O. Cubicus
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Pufferpunk wrote:
**Mind you if they are a SW fish like Pufferpunk's, the Ocean does tend to be a tad bit cooler than lakes, streams and rivers** So maybe their secret is cool SW? I dunno. I could have swore Fishfan mentioned they originated upstream in FW. This is confusing lol grrrr!!! I will try to add a little salt to their cooler water and see what happens. If they don't like it then that answers that question... they would be FW and Def. not SW/BW. What is the temp on your SW GSP tank Pufferpunk ?
I kept mine at around 78-80 degrees, just like all my other fish. To tell you the truth--
GSPs have rarely been found in the ocean--if ever. It's just that the filtration for high-end BW fish is of better quality (live rock/sand, skimmer), which is why I recomend bumping the SG up the few extra points to marine, from high-end BW.

BTW, I rehomed those puffers years ago.
oOo I was unaware. That is good to know though.

You gave your GSP's away?!?! Aww :( Did you trade them for another setup/fish or did they just get to be too big ? The pic I saw of them was a very beautiful setup. You did a nice job. 8)
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Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
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Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Pufferpunk »

I had 2 adults & a large Ceylon, all in a 55g tank. Way too cramped! I decided to go the reef route & traded them in for a credit at my LFS. I still miss their prying eyes, staring at me while on my computer.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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4 C. Assellus
18 C. Travancoricus
4 M. Cochinchinensis
5 Auriglobus Silus
4 Chelonodon Patoca
1 O. Cubicus
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: T. Sabahensis : Coolest fish I knew.

Post by Umbrella »

Good call Fishfan. I added more air to my tank and they stopped changing their bellies black. The only time they do it now is when they are scared or angry. Currently these guys are being housed with my 4 Chelonodon Patocas and all 6 puffs appear to me to be doing excellent. Now, I have discovered that the Chelonodon Patocas grow very very fast. I got them when they were very small, just under 1 inch each. Now these little beasties are almost 2.5 inches each!! It has only been about 3 months. Their attitudes have changed as well. Maybe they learned from the giant GSP's.. who knows but they are not afraid to straight up BITE the tail of one of the giant GSP's for absolutely no reason. I witnessed it one time after feeding. So now I am going to remove the Chelonodons from the giant GSP tank and split them in to 2 and 2. I can no longer trust the 4 of them together ( as you can see ). I just wanted to let you guys know that Chelonodon Patoca is like Mbu -----> they grow VERY fast. I got them when they were about as big as an adult DP and after just 3 short months they have grown larger than the South Americans. So if you were thinking of getting one. Make sure it is only 1 OR you have space for the 2. Also, the ONLY reason the 4 of these get along is simply because they have been together since birth. If I put a 5th outsider Chelonodon in there, they would most likely kill it. As in, all 4 would attack it. When it comes time to feed, I see them steal food from each other's mouths and also they nip each other in an effort to get the food first or scare the others away momentarily. Sometimes I come to see them in the morning and find a Rosy missing its face. I don't feed these guys rosies. The rosies are only in the tank for Mr. Needle fish to eat at his leisure... but sometimes the puffs kill his food. I took the chance of Mr. Needle eating the Chelonodons but he wanted nothing to do with them after they nipped his tail a few times. Something in their head just clicks and tells them that biting this tail here in front of them is a good idea... so they do it. And when they bite, they bite hard. REALLY HARD. So don't ever NOT pay attention with your fingers in the tank. They will try to eat you. Also, I am guessing that very very soon they will turn on each other. One more reason I am separating them.
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