pale f8, lethargic, help please!!

[martini57]

So one of the new puffers looks a little pale to me, compared to the other one. Also she( I call this one the girl, no particular reason why) seems to be less energetic than the other one. I have also noticed her laying around on the sand, while the other one zips around the tank constantly 'hunting'. Both of their bellies are white, and she is eating great; not as aggressive as the other one though. And whenever I walk by she always comes up to greet me and appear to get a little darker in color(not grey, just colors a little brighter and more defined).

amm- 0.25( possibly due to Prime, discussed in another thread)
nitrite- 0
nitrate- 20 ppm
pH- 8.1-8.2
SG- 1.002, 80 f
I don't have the kh/gh test yet, but when I took my water in yesterday to get it checked, they did a strip which had it on there. it said pH was 8 and one of them( I can't remember which one, sorry) but I thought it said something around 300? and very hard. I didn't get a good look at it, he threw it away before I could write everything down and didn't want to do another one.

30 US gallons, 40% WC on Tuesday. Had the f8's for a little over a week, essentially had to restart the tank almost 2 weeks ago. added safestart when the puffers came in. So its possible that I am overreacting a bit, but it is much easier to solve a small issue than a big one and if its something I should be worried about then I want to know what kind of stuff I should be monitoring for, other things besides water parameters which I test daily.

[RTR]

I would suspect that your water is quite hard. But if they are using test strips and not liquid reagents, the testing is not likely to be very accurate. If you are on a public utility, you can get a profile from your water utility which is at least accurate on what leaves their plant. You might give them a call. Baseline info is better than no info.

When you have con-specifics in a tank, you have to expect that one fish will be dominant. We can't differentiate males and females among F-8s. Is the set-up visually complex and are their at least semi-sheltered resting sites for the puffers?

[martini57]

I didn't even think about that, I will give them a call and see what they say. Thanks! As far as the tank being complex, I think that it is. I made a slate structure with caves and swim throughs, as well as a lot of fake plants of varying heights and a tree stump decoration(fake) that also has swim throughs and is a cave. I will upload a picture for some input.

And I know that we can't determine the sex of f8's, that's just what I say they are

[martini57]

I haven't heard back from the water company yet, but the f8 is getting a little bit worse. Still eating, but laying around a lot, on leaves and on the sand. Definitely not as chipper as she was. I did a 25% wc tonight, even though the water was the same as before. Nitrates might have been slightly higher but not considerably. She seems weaker as well, and a little bit lumpy possibly. No places around me have prazipro but I think they have tetra parasite guard. I would have gotten it sooner I just forgot whenever I went to the pt store. I guess I will just dose the bloodworms and treat everybody. I have the frozen bloodworms that come out in the cubes, so if I were to thaw an entire cube, how much of the parasite guard should I add?

[martini57]

I got API parasite stuff, because no tetra parasite guard. They are packets of powder, each packet has 250 mg metronidazole and 75 praziquantel. I only put a tiny sprinkle in the bloodworms mix, maybe 1/10 of the packet if that yesterday. The puffers might have eaten a few of them but spit mot of them back out. The f8 is very lethargic now, won't come to greet me, hiding and laying around and breathing hard. She is very pale. Her abdomen is definitely lumpy, and it appears that the lumps almost have a grey ring around them, like her coloring though, not like dead tissue. The water is fine amm-0-0.25, nitrite-0 nitrate -10, temp 79 f, sg-1.003, ph 8.2. All her fins look fine, she isn't getting bullied. I don't know what else to do. Should I increase the temp on the tank? Should I dose the water since she isn't really eating any of the food?

[Pufferpunk]

Higher temp may increase appetite. Soak the worms in garlic to help with that, too & enhance flavor.

[martini57]

Higher temp may increase appetite. Soak the worms in garlic to help with that, too & enhance flavor.

yeah that's what I was thinking. From experience with having to force metronidazole down animals throats, I know that is tastes HORRIBLE. I also had a vet that I worked for made me taste it. And it really is that bad, I am surprised they ate any of them. Can I use regular crushed garlic, or is it essential that I get the special kind made for fish? I am also thinking about getting some panacur and dosing with that, to cover all bases. If I were to increase the temp, what should I go up to? and should I feed more frequently? obviously only 1 medicated dose a day.

[Pufferpunk]

I'd increase to 82. Crush a fresh garlic clove. I feed the med foods as often as possible, since they're not getting much in. Even when they spit it out, something is getting in.

[martini57]

Ok will do. I added a long air stone last night, just I case there wasn't enough oxygen. It may have helped a little bit, but I can't be sure. It does seem like she got something out though, because today she seems very very skinny, almost deflated in sme areas. Although there is a big round bubble in her abdomen, similar to after they eat but this seems harder for some reason, if that makes any sense. Besides bloodworms, what other foods are good to medicate with?

[Pufferpunk]

Go with what she prefers. You can inject meds into larger worms.

[martini57]

Ok, I made a mysis shrimp and bloodworm mixture with meds and garlic. So I'm going to let that soak in for a little bit. I'm gonna test the water in a few hours and I'll post that on here when I get done with that. The temp is up to 80 now, I've been increasing very gradually so I can make sure the heater is working correctly. I get nervous when changing the heater much in case it got too hot too quickly and I didn't notice. I did use the hydrometer and I checked the salinity, and I am a bit confused. So when I did the water change a few days ago, the new water was sg 1.004 and the tank was 1.002 or 3. But I just checked the tank and it's 1.001.

[Pufferpunk]

Maybe there were bubbles on the hydrometer arm? How are you mixing the salt?

[martini57]

I knocked it around and didn't see any bubbles. I also did it twice and got just about the same reading. I went out and bought a 28 gallon brute trashcan. So I filled it up to about 20 gallons maybe a little bit more. And I let it mix with air stones and a submersible filter that I had for a turtle, doesn't have any filter media in it, so essentially its just a power head. But I let it mix for a few days, I would check it and add more salt until it got to 1.004.

[martini57]

Well it appears we are making progress, she appears to be passing a worm as we speak. I am curious as to what kind it is though. It is translucent but whitish with what looks like some kind of dark circular head or something

[Pufferpunk]

Probably need a microscope.