dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

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Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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pirasha
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dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by pirasha »

Hey Guys! Hopefully you can help me. I have a Dwarf Puffer that I’ve had for about 9 months or so…but I just can’t get him to eat really. He nibbles a little, but doesn’t attack anything like puffers should. This guy is super timid for some reason…when I first got him he was in the tank with a Panda Garra and he wouldn’t come out of hiding unless the Panda was out first…but then after a few months I had to move the panda because he (panda) started attacking the puffer (craziness right? I mean I figured I might have to move the panda…but because of puffer aggression, not puffer timidness) So now Puffer is alone in a 8 gallon tank, he’s been alone for about 3 months now. He’ll come to the glass when I get close because he knows I bring food…but I just can’t get him to eat…frozen food(bloodworms, brine shrimp, daphnia) he’ll nibble but spit right back out, snails he’ll nibble a little then wander away, live black worms he’ll get excited about and eat 1 or 2 then get disinterested again. He’s super skinny and I’m running out of options to try. I’ve even contemplated adding another puffer in with him so maybe he’ll see the other one eating and maybe eat out of competition…but I feel that may cause too much competition and possibly aggression. Anyone ever run into this? I’m used to fat, buzzing DPs that will eat anything you throw in with them, especially if it’s live and wriggling.



Tank Perimeters:

8gal (10 gallon cube tank but with a sump, so figure 8 gal of swimming space)

Filter: sump filled with ceramic bioballs + eheim 2213

Heavy planted and driftwood

Inhabitants: 1 male dwarf puffer

Light on 8hrs/day

Ammonia- 0

Nitrate- edit between 5 and 10..not 0

Nitrite -0

Temp-79

Ph – 8.2

Chlorine-0

Water change 10% once a week adding prime as a dechlorinater

Tank has been set up for about a year and a half or so now…was previously an old regular 10 gall tank that was scratched, so everything was transferred into this tank, previous occupants before puffer were a couple (4) of black skirt tetras and a panda garra, black skirts were given to a friend to increase her school the day before getting puffer to keep cycle stable.
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by Pufferpunk »

Did you get him as an adult or juvie? Have you tried soaking his food in garlic? Can you get live worms?
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by RTR »

Dwarf puffers are barely puffers. Is this one full sized yet? He probably should be.

Do you have any ramshorn snails in the tank with him? One or two in residence would be good.

If he east live blackworms, keep them in stock and feed him 2 twice daily via a worm cone. Put a small clear glass bowl beneath the cone to trap any worms which fall to the substrate, then remove them if uneaten in 10-15 minutes. If he eats them routinely, keep up the schedule of feeding 5 or six days a week. Fish other than the most hyperactive rarely need daily feeding once past fry stage. Most of my DPs have only been fed every other day.

Increase the water partials to at least 30% weekly ASAP. If that improves his activity and appetite, go to 50% partials and hols there.

HTH
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pirasha
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by pirasha »

Pufferpunk: I have not tried the garlic in a while (I did when i first got him) but worth a try again..totally forgot about it. and yes, I got him as an adult (already had his wrinkles) I do have live worms, it's the only thing I can get him to eat which I am fine with...but he'll only eat one or two so the problem is he's not eating enough.

RTR: Yes he is full sized, I do have a few ramshorm snails in there with him which he'll go after..but loses focus if he doesn't get a meaty bit in the first or second strike. Please see above for live worms...I am feeding him everyday in the hope he'll put on weight via the 2 worms a day, but I just don't think it is enough for him. For both the worms and the snails it' like he gets overwhelmed by choices or something, he'll stare for a while, go to strike, then get distracted by a leaf or another worm, or whatever happens to be moving (which in water is everything) The good thing is he's very active and alert I guess...just not eating and just sooo skinny. If his weight would increase to the normal range I will start feeding every other day, but right now I think he'd starve.

As for water changes I will start increasing them...would 30% once a week or 15% twice a week be better? If he improves with the water changes I will definitely increase! I love this little guy


Thanks for your suggestions thus far
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by Pufferpunk »

I do a minimum of 50% weekly. How hard is that for an 8g? Did you get this puff as a juvie?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by pirasha »

50% water change would be okay for the 8 gallon because I've got a sump on it..so there should be enough bacteria in the bioballs and filter so the cycle won't crash...but if you think I can get away with it I'd rather start with 30% and slowly increase it each week till I get to 50..just so I don't shock everything. However if you think immediate 50 in necessary I'll do that.

Also I did get him as an adult, wanted a juvy but LFS had all adults, but they seemed happy and healthy enough I made the decision to get him anyway (oy )
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Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by Pufferpunk »

You can do a 100% WC & not crash the system. Most of your bacteria is on surfaces, not in the water column. It is possible the puffer is just old then...
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by pirasha »

okay I'll do a 50% water change as soon as I get home today...I think I'm also going to see if I can start treating for internal parasites just in case... though that may prove difficult since he's not eating...

Yea he may just be old since I have no idea how old he was when I got him, I just want to make sure it isn't something fixable.
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by RTR »

Commercial breeders do up to100-200% water partials daily. Conscientious hobbyists do at least 50% partials weekly. The required cycle bacteria are in the biofilter, attached to the media. They are not free in the water.
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by Master of Puffers »

what kind of bio-balls do you have??

We have Marinepure Biofilter balls. They are the size of a golf ball but an internal surface area of a football field. The Niagra(US) Aquariums use them.
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by PufferGhoti »

There is also plenty of the bacteria in the water column is not zero just less significant but you can seed tanks with a water column transfer but better to use filter media or substrate. I understand refreshing the environment via water changes and garlic to entice +ve feeding response. What about decor and flow stimulants and maybe competitive food situation ? Just thoughts...
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by PufferGhoti »

PufferGhoti wrote:There is also plenty of the bacteria in the water column is not zero just less significant but you can seed tanks with a water column transfer but better to use filter media or substrate. I understand refreshing the environment via water changes and garlic to entice +ve feeding response. What about decor and flow stimulants and maybe competitive food situation ? Just thoughts...

I would be thinking of a larger aquarium after that...


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature
Last edited by PufferGhoti on Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by RTR »

Sorry, but the above comments by PufferGhoti are mistaken and/or misleading to absolutely incorrect. Bacteria in tanks commonly occur as either attached or free-floating as general lifestyles. Some bacteria which are free-floating occur as single cell forms or as chains or clumps of attached cells which can also survive as single-cells in the water column. Other bacteria types grow as attached clumps or layers, and typically cannot metabolize and grow normally only, repeat only, as attached forms, commonly as sheets of cell which increase as layers over time. Both the bacteria which oxidize ammonia to nitrite and the different species which oxidize nitrite to nitrate are of the attached sheet-forming types. As those sheets thicken, the lowest layers become starved for nutrients and oxygen by the overlying younger layers of bacteria. They then die and lose their attachment - something a bit like old layers of blistered paint shaling off painted wood in the sun. Some of those fragments may well be caught in filter media or other semi-sheltered sites in our tanks and re-grow as filter bacteria. The fragments in the water briefly cannot metabolize normally, so do not and cannot act as filter bacteria in the water column. In our tanks, aerobic nitrification is done only, repeat only by attached bacteria. The free-floating water column bacteria do not take part in this process, period.

Both water column and attached bacteria are present throughout our tanks. There are many, many form of aquatic bacteria in the wild and in our tanks. But normal tank nitrication is performed best, and in most FW and BW tanks solely by attached bacteria which do not and cannot metabolize normally while free-floating in the water column. In SW FOWLR + skimmer + macroalgae refugium tanks, quite different bacteria processes are employed. Unfortunately, water column bacteia cannot do all the jobs we need to have done to keep our wet pets alive and healyhy.

HTH
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by PufferGhoti »

RTR wrote:Unfortunately, water column bacteia cannot do all the jobs we need to have done to keep our wet pets alive and healyhy.

HTH
That was never suggested or implied, Just that some bacteria can be found in the water column which can be helpful in "cycling" a tank, why add liquid containing beneficial bacterial if its not possible to seed. Obviously this does not address the TS original request for help.
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Re: dwarf puffer not eating, very skinny

Post by PufferGhoti »

pirasha wrote:
Heavy planted and driftwood

Inhabitants: 1 male dwarf puffer

Light on 8hrs/day

Ammonia- 0

Nitrate- edit between 5 and 10..not 0

Nitrite -0

Temp-79

Ph – 8.2

Chlorine-0

Water change 10% once a week adding prime as a dechlorinater
I am little surprised at pH=8.2, do you have hard water or limestone based substrate that changed ? or the effect of a buffer ? what the pH of your tap water ?

Maybe this is a dead thread as the TS or OP has not logged on for a week I hope all is well.
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