HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Oh no! Sick fish?! Come here and see if someone can help!
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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.
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AquaMike
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HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by AquaMike »

This started last night with my big girl. My wife gave her One Small snail from my breeding tank early in the night and she ate it. When I got home, an hour-ish before lights out she was hanging out near the surface. Not floating or on her side or any weird position, just sort of looking up at an angle. I did notice her breathing is a little heavier. She is also not very active, at all. She did not even seem interested in her frozen bloodworms last night. That's what really threw me off. This morning I noticed the same thing. She is in a different spot, but no change. There is No physical difference (spots, discoloration, noticable poop issues, etc).

Any suggestions on what is going on or what to do? This is my favorite fish...
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Pufferpunk »

Moved to the correct forum. You know what to do... ;)
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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AquaMike
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by AquaMike »

quick update: seems slightly better by being a little more active. Still not interested in eating yet. Stomach is not sunken in either. Physically looks fine. Did a WC and added some Kordon fish protector as well. I'm going to soak some frozen bloodworms in garlic guard and metronidazole tomorrow morning.
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AquaMike
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Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:47 pm
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by AquaMike »

well that didn't work. Didn't seem interested at all. I even tried another snail and a live blackworm. Nothing seems worse, but it's obviously no better...I'd rather not syringe feed it. I'd have to pick up some clove oil first. Is it easy to get? I figured I didn't need it with pea puffers cause you didn't have to worry about their teeth. And more importantly, where would you get a plastic syringe that small? Now it appears the little DP is staying near the bigger one cause she knows something is wrong. this stinks
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Pufferpunk
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
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Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Pufferpunk »

Please answer all the Qs above in red! I wouldn't use CO on a DP.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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AquaMike
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Location (country): CT, USA

Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by AquaMike »

Forgot you guys can't see my tank info on this site. The 10G tank has been up and running for roughly a year and a half. I've had the puffer for about a year with no problems at all. Parameters are 0,0,<5ppm, pH is ~7.2, water is mildly hard. I do ~1/3 WC weekly and dose with Prime, as well as Excel & Flourish for my plants. It is heavily planted and has floaters as well to dim the lighting. The tank has 2 sponge filters on opposite ends. I did get a new heater beginning of the week cause my other one stopped working. The temp dropped about 5 degrees for a day so when I brought the new heater home (couldn't find my spare, go figure) I slowly raised the temp back, about a degree an hour. She shares the tank with another smaller DP and some pgymy cories, and surprisingly RCS (which was supposed to be food). Everything has been living side by side for about 6 months now.

I noticed this first when she didn't fly to the front of the tank to beg me for food. Sometimes she is exploring through the plants and all the nooks I have. Then I knew it was a problem when she wouldn't eat. If a worm or snail hits the water she is usually there before I can drop it in. I feel like she would jump out of the water if she could.
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Myaj »

First reaction is always do a water change just in case something got in the tank (lotion on your wife's hands, some sort of cleaning spray, etc).

Second reaction, try not to panic.. puffers will EASILY go weeks without eating. You'll probably stress her out more by trying to force feed her. As long as the water is clean and no one is harassing her, color is good, no fast breathing, I would just keep an eye on her.

It could be something as simple as she's eggy and feeling "off". Some fish will stop eating when that happens. It may be something that you'll never figure out. You could move her to a hospital tank and do an antibiotic treatment, etc but in my personal opinion, that will just be more stress that she doesn't need if she's not feeling well, so unless this goes on for several more days or she shows big signs of deterioration, I'd just keep an eye on her. Probably.. my next step would be to treat for constipation if she's looking the same in a few days and not eating but nothing extreme.

And there's always the chance that its just something you can't help. Old age, a tumor, etc. Maybe she just needs to fully digest and pass part of the snail shell. I did once have a puffer die after eating a box elder bug that fell into the tank, I did a dissection afterwords and it had swallowed part of the shell and couldn't digest it.. but that's never happened with a snail that I've known of. But just an example of the sort of thing that you really can't do much about if it happens.
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AquaMike
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by AquaMike »

Thanks Myaj. I'm trying not to panic. I have a QT setup ready to go if I need to but I just don't want to cause any more stress. Already did the WC. Everything else in the tank is normal and good. The thing is she looks perfectly healthy and I know a sign of IPs is a sunken stomach. She doesn't have that. The no interest in food is scaring me cause I won't be able to administer medicine with food.

What are signs of constipation and how would you go about treating that? Unlike bettas, I know my DP will not eat a pea...

BTW, there IS heavy breathing going on.
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Myaj
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Myaj »

You've double checked your temp right?

Constipation sometimes they are swollen, you haven't noticed them poo in a while. Sometimes its something like this.. something is off, they aren't eating and you're not sure what else to try. Its been a long time since I've looked into it but I believe you can treat with some sort of salt bath.. not sure if its normal aquarium salt or if it was epsom salts, let me look around a bit.
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Myaj »

Did a quick search and found this:
Treatment
Constipation is treated primarily by providing high-fiber foods that can act as a laxative. During the treatment phase, no other foods should be given (and certainly not pellets, flake or freeze-dried foods). Tinned peas are the classic laxative for most fish, either whole (in the case of species like goldfish) or squashed (for smaller species, such as bettas). Other good foods include plants (particularly Elodea and Egeria) and chitinous live foods (such as Daphnia and brine shrimp).

Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) is a mild muscle relaxant used when treating moderate to severe constipation. Depending on the severity of the case, a dosage of 1 to 3 teaspoons per 5 gallons is recommended.

Peas are probably not an option even if she was feeling good, but epsom salts are easy enough to work with.. especially if you already have a tank ready to go. I'm not sure how long you would leave her in it though for treatment, still looking for details on that. Everyone just refers to it as "a bath", which usually means 5 minutes or so I would think.
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AquaMike
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by AquaMike »

Temp is fine, 76 degrees. From what I've found it's epsom salts. I have to go to the grocery store anyways so I'll pick some up, maybe even some peas as a last resort.

I actually never see them poo. Every once in awhile I see a small lumpy red-ish thing and used to think it was a dead/eaten shrimp but it had to be their poo. The food they get the most are frozen bloodworms, hence the red.
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Myaj
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Myaj »

And it says don't feed them anything else while treating until it passes (don't want the food just all blocking up).. but she's not eating so that's not a problem. I can't say I ever witnessed my dwarfs poo either when I kept them.. they are sneaky little evil fish, in many ways :)
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Myaj »

Found a reference that it may take up to 3 days in the bath for it to work. So there's a basic idea, maybe try that in a few days if she doesn't come around and you don't have any other ideas.
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AquaMike
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Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by AquaMike »

tried a 20 min epsom salt bath. will update later
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Pufferpunk
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
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My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Greenville, SC
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: HELP! pea puffer is not right...

Post by Pufferpunk »

You can add it directly to the tank: 1 tbsp/10g.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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