Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

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Since this board has been up, we have found there are several questions that routinely get asked in order to help diagnose problems. If you can have that information to begin with in your post, we'll be able to help right away (if we can!) without having to wait for you to post the info we need.

1) Your water parameters - pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates and salinity (if appropriate). This is by far the most important information you can provide! Do not answer this with "Fine" "Perfect" "ok", that tells us nothing. We need hard numbers.

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. Include algae eaters, plecos, everything. We need to know what you have and how big the tank is.

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc)

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it.

We want to help, and providing this information will go a LONG way to getting a diagnosis and hopeful cure that much faster.

While you wait for assistance:
One of the easiest and best ways to help your fish feel better is clean water! If you are already on a regular water change schedule (50% weekly is recommended) a good step to making your fish more comfortable while waiting for diagnosis/suggestions is to do a large water change immediately. Feel free to repeat daily or as often as you can, clean water is always a good thing! Use of Amquel or Prime as a dechlor may help with any ammonia or nitrite issues, and is highly recommended.

Note - if you do not normally do large water changes, doing a sudden, large water change could shock your fish by suddenly changing their established water chemistry. Clean water is still your first goal, so in this case, do several smaller (10%) water changes over the next day or two before starting any large ones.

Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby NewPuffer on Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:04 pm

Help!! I have 2 asellus puffers, 1 GSP, and 2 figure 8's. The Figure 8's are doing great, but recently my GSP developed black on the underside of his belly. Also, my 2 asellus seem to be developing ick.

My situation is this...

29g aqaurium
1.005 SG
PH ~ 7-7.5
Nitrate and Nitrite both minimal
50% WC usually 1x/week
2 filters - Marineland HOB Pengiun 100 with Biowheel and an Aquaclear 30.
Temp ~ 82degrees but recently raised to 84 to try and fight the ick!
Sand substrate

The main problem that I know I am fighting is that I directly added salt to the tank and have read on here not to do that. Struggling with how to add water without using buckets. right now my method is to siphon out water, double dose with dechlorinators and ammonia remover, and pump tap back in, then add salt as needed.

HELP!!

Thanks so much.
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby Pufferpunk on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:39 pm

Are they all in the same tank? Keep reading...
GDP is a high-end BW/SW fish, that needs a minimum of 30g for a singleton:
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=28469

F8 is a low-end BW species, that requires 15g for a singleton:
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=28692

SAP is a FW fish that prefers to live in groups of 5 or more: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebinde ... tNeale.htm

ANY nitrIte at all, is bad. You need to separate these 3 species into 3 systems & start treating. Heat & salt for all 3: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28113
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby NewPuffer on Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:56 pm

I think I messed up with the salinity of the tank. The tank was previously freshwater and housed several african cichlids. I didn't re-cycle the tank as BW but just added salt and then the fish. Do you think I killed all of the bacteria?

I have had this tank up and running for about 3 years as a FW before recently turning it about a month ago.
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby Pufferpunk on Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:09 pm

Was it empty between the cichlids & puffers? Do you have a refractometer? What are your plans of separating these 3 different species?
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby NewPuffer on Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:24 pm

The tank was empty except for a plecostomus for about a week, which I also get rid of the same day I got the puffers. I have a hydrometer and measured the SG at 1.005. It was around 1.003 and then I tried to increase it to fight the ick. I just read your heat and salt treatment post and will try that for the ick.

I have no idea what I am going to do about separating them yet. I live in a condo and definitely do not have space for 3 tanks.

I am going to at least try and mix my salt and water separately before adding to the tank. Just got home today and the GSP is looking black throughout his whole body!!!

Sorry about the double posts...I saw this hospital heading after my first post and thought it would fit better under here.
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby NewPuffer on Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:52 pm

One more thing, sorry...


In your post on treating the ich...you mentioned to remove water and add 1 tsp of salt per gallon...how many gallons should be removed? I removed 5 gal and added 5 tsp, temp is increased to 86. Should i continue? SG was already at 1.004 in tank...the salinity of the water i just treated is basically the same...how will this help the treatment?
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby Pufferpunk on Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:48 pm

1.004 is good enough to treat ich. Is it just the SAP showing it? They almost always get it, when moved. Please answer all the other questions above, in red.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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2 T biocellatus
C valentini
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Also kept:
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burrfish
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby NewPuffer on Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:07 pm

It is just the two SAP that are showing it. So since my last post...the GSP died that night. I have done the first step of your method to treat ich (adding 1 tsp of salt into extracted water and recycling it). SG is now at 1.005. I have waited 24 hrs and the puffers show no ill effects so my intent was to increase the salt dosage as suggested in your treatment.

answers to the above:

1. pH~7.5, ammonia between 0-.25/mg/L, nitrate and nitrite 0, SG 1.005.
2. 29 gallon tank with 2 figure 8s and 2 SAPs. Have a variety of fake and real plants, driftwook and other decor. Real plants are anacharis and cabomba (sp?)
3. They are feed twice a day. I rotate between bloodworms, mysis shrimp, and brine shrimp...but one of figure 8s and one of the SAPs only really eat the bloodworms. They periodically get snails and I dump 10 ghost shrimp in the tank about 1x/2weeks. Don't really notice them eating the snail shells though. i have tried both ramshorn and regular pond snails.
4. I hvae done a 25% water change 4 days ago and another 25% the next day just so I could get a full 50% change in this week. Usually I do 50% WC each week. I did recently buy 1 bunch of anacharis from PETCO and put it in. Not sure if they would have anything to do with this...i add Prime and a dechlorinator when adding new tap water.
5. The aquarium has been up for 3 years as FW. Recently converted to BW for puffers. been converted for about a month. tank was originally cycled with goldfish. Then the tank house serveral african cichlids, a pleco, and clown loach. All were successful.
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby bertie 83 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:35 pm

2x 25% is not even close to a single 50%. Whilst treating for ick up your waterchanges to at least 2-3 x 35- 50%, obviously 3x 50% would be great and be sure to thoroughly vacuum your substrate.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby Pufferpunk on Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:39 pm

Actually, ich treatment requires 80% WC every other day, to remove free-swimming cysts.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
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2 T biocellatus
C valentini
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Also kept:
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby bertie 83 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:44 pm

Whilst that would certainly be beneficial, I got through ich with smaller regular partials. If I am not cleaning filters I don't go below the intake pipes. I would prefer to change more water more frequently than have to restart my filters ( this started with my sun sun the eheims are no bother). If you can change that quantity then certainly do so. If not do regular daily largish partials with gravel vac. Certainly not trying to take anything away from what pp says.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby Nuclear_Glitter on Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:48 pm

Do you know anybody that can take care of some of these puffers? You obviously have a very, very incompatible tank.
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Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby Pufferpunk on Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:14 pm

If I am not cleaning filters I don't go below the intake pipes. I would prefer to change more water more frequently than have to restart my filters

Just unplug or turn the filters off.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

"The solution to pollution is dilution!"
User avatar
Pufferpunk
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Posts: 27403
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 11:06 am
Location: Chicago
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Gender: Female
My Puffers: Filbert, the 12" T lineatus
Punkster, the 4" red T miurus
Mongo, the 4" A modestus
2 T biocellatus
C valentini
C coranata
C papuan
Also kept:
lorteti
DPs
suvattii
burrfish
T niphobles
Location (country): USA, Chicago

Re: Black Belly GSP and Asellus Ick

Postby bertie 83 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:47 pm

Pufferpunk wrote:
If I am not cleaning filters I don't go below the intake pipes. I would prefer to change more water more frequently than have to restart my filters

Just unplug or turn the filters off.


The eheims are no bother but after my sun sun saga I choose not to. I just do multiple smaller changes that equate to much more than I need to do on a weekly basis. When dealing with disease things may be different. However I got through it and now have a healthy fish. 80% changes may be beneficial but multiple smaller changes may work just as well.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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bertie 83
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Non puffer
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Harlequins, CAE's, Yoyo
Loaches, Clown loaches ,Eels, various shrimp,
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