Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

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Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by pufferpuggirl »

Okay, this is Part 2 of the BeeBoo thread.

I thought that BeeBoo was getting better, but I'm not so sure now. Yesterday he ate a very small piece of shrimp, after not eating anything other than snails for about 4 or 5 days. Just the fact that he'd eaten a little piece of the shrimp made me feel so happy. He also has had rather normal feces for the previous 2 days, being brown and not stringy and white with that "pearly" look. However, today is another matter. I finally got the garlic juice I've been waiting on, and I thought I would soak some of the shrimp pieces in that and then try and get BeeBoo to eat it. He completely ignored it, even moved his body so the food could fall past him! I also found some stringy pinkish pearly-looking feces where he had been hanging out, and I'm sure it's coming from him, not any of the other fish.

So here's the issue. I FINALLY received the meds I'd been waiting on. The praziquantel came yesterday, and the metronidazole came today. Thing is, both directions say to use it added to water, neither says anything about the puffer ingesting it orally. Besides having other fish and a few other puffers in the same tank as BeeBoo, I also have some expensive snails and an aquatic crab in that tank too, so I'm very hesitant to use these meds directly into the tank.

Has anyone ever used these meds as a medicinal soak/bath? I was thinking of taking a container (I don't have a "hospital" tank, or any vacant tanks right now) putting some of the aquarium water in, along with a heater and airstone, and doing a bath/soak in there. Thing is, I'm not sure how long to leave the puffer in the solution in order for it to be beneficial. Because the metronidazole came from Poland, and it's all written in Polish, the person who I bought it from has done a quick translation and sent me a little sheet with the tablets, but it doesn't say how often to do that soak, it just gives a general dosage (one capsule for a bath in 50-litres of water; and one capsule for a preventative soak in 100-litres of water). I think this was intended for use in the regular aquarium because it says to do a 1/3 volume of water change out and to use charcoal to remove any residual effects. One capsule has 500mg of metronidazole, 2mg acriflavine hydrochloride and 2mg methylene blue.

As for the praziquantel, it's a little different. Again, I think it's intended use is to be directly added to the aquarium. Here's what is says on my bottle: Empty 1 capsule for bathing in no more than 4-gallons of water. Start treatment with new water. Do not stop filtration, but remove activated carbon or UV sterilization. Distribute the amount around the edges or directly into the filter box for the best overall distribution. One treatment lasting 5-7 days is usually sufficient, but no more than once every 3-5 days. May be used as a preventative at the standard dose. Do not use with any other drugs (and that part has me concerned because I was told to use the praziquantel and metronidazole together).

I'm confused with the praziquantel because it says 1 capsule for bathing in no more than 4-gallons of water, but then is talking about adding the medication to the entire tank .... so I'm just not sure, and then it says that it can be used as a preventative at the standard dose. Well I don't see anything in the directions that state one dose for regular use and another dose as a preventative usage.

What it comes down to is that I'm very afraid to use these meds in my fish tank for fear of the medications killing all my snails and my aquatic crab. Does anyone have any good solutions?? BeeBoo isn't really eating, so putting meds in his foods doesn't seem like an option, and really, even if it was, I'm unsure of the dosage to use.

******* Just been looking and I see that the 'Jungle' brand fizz tabs have both praziquantel and metronidazole in them, so I need to figure out if these ingredients will kill my snails and crab *******

Needless to say, I am very confused as to what to do. :(
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by marksrush »

I think it's praziquantel that will kill your invertebrates, not metronidazole. (By the way, did you know praziquantel is also used in humans for parasite removal?) I found this out the first time when I treated my first GSP with Jungle's Parasite Guard (same ingredients as the fizztabs, but in a crystalline powder form), and the tank was heavily infested with little pond snails. It wiped them out. I could be wrong, but it seems to me like the ingredient that kills internal worms (praziquantel) would be the one responsible, but then iirc metronidazole is also used for anchor worms...so I guess I have to end up by saying, "Who knows?"

Methylene blue is probably not something you want to use on your puffer. Just a hunch.

If you can get Jungle's fizztabs, do that. Way less guesswork, but they'll still kill your invertebrates, or nearly kill them. I had a few ghost shrimp that survived treatment, but they acted like they were affected and didn't move much for several days.

Is it possible to pull the snails and crab out instead, so you could treat BeeBoo's tank? That's preferable in case the parasites have gotten eggs out of the fish and into the water, where they'll sink to the substrate and just keep the life cycle going.
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by pufferpuggirl »

I guess if it came down to absolutely having to do the tank .... I could probably catch the crab, but I'd probably wreck my tank in the process, as for the snails.... I might be able to get most of them, but probably not all. Thing is, how long would I need to keep them all out of that tank before I could put them back? I don't have alot of choices in where to put the crab because my other puffers will kill him, and if I put him in with my red-claw crab, I'm afraid one of them will kill the other (often happens with crabs).

Could I not try doing a "soak" with BeeBoo first, and then going for the total tank dosing if BeeBoo doesn't appear to get better? I don't see any of the other puffers with the stringy poo and I beileve that I read somewhere that Hexamita isn't contagious .... but I'm not 100% sure on that one.
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by Pufferpunk »

I'm still not 100% sure he even has IPs at this point. Puffers do go on hunger strikes occasionally. How often have you been feeding him? Have you tried live earthworms for him (& Orangy)?

I'm gonna PM RTR & see if he has any feedback on this.
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by LilGreenPuffer »

I don't think that baths or dips would have much effect on internal parasites.
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by Pufferpunk »

Me either.
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by pufferpuggirl »

Well the only reason I think he's got IP's .... is the weird feces he's been having, and the lack of colour to his body. He did have a rather good appetite until last week and that's when he stopped taking regular food. I feed all my smaller puffers every day ... the lurkers every other day if they are bigger ones, but BeeBoo would often take food daily, sometimes every other day .... but now he's just not interested in the food.

We are getting the earthworms today. I didn't have any idea where to get them and only just found out where a bait shop is yesterday (Wednesday) .... so hopefully my husband shall be going out when he wakes up and getting me some earthworms to entice both Orangey and BeeBoo.

Should I try an earthworm before soaking snails in the Jungle tabs? (I forgot I even had the Jungle tabs, and I had no need to wait all this time for the meds to come as I had gotten these Jungle fizz tabs a few months ago, and literally forgot about them -- so I've wasted both time and money by ordering more meds and waiting for them to arrive).

You see, I'd be overjoyed if it turns out that he doesn't have IP's .... but thinking back with hindsight, I think IP's were probably to blame for my suvattii's deaths, and I don't want to do nothing for BeeBoo and then have him die on me. I'm just trying to do something before it's too late. But it would be absolutely fantastic if BeeBoo doesn't have anything like IP's! :)
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by soggydrysuit »

Just thinking aloud - It'd be nice if you could inject medicines like this into food so it might stay put.

Seems like another catch 22: the only way you can get the meds in to treat is for the fish to be eating.

My 'Flubenol' will knock out filters and addition to killing inverts :( Still it's supposedly good stuff if you can dissolve it.

I'm very interested in this thread!
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by eieio »

i'm in the middle of water testing & changing, & wanted you to know that i'm thinking a lot about you & BeeBoo & Orangey
:)wishing for the very best outcomes.......! :)
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by Pufferpunk »

Just thinking aloud - It'd be nice if you could inject medicines like this into food so it might stay put.
You absolutely can, especially easy with worms & snails.
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by pufferpuggirl »

That is really nice of you eieio .... we (me and the puffers) truly appreciate your concern. :D

And Mr Soggy -- I had thought about seeing if I could procure a hypodermic to inject medication .. but I don't know if that is something I can get without a Dr's prescription or not. I bought one without a needle very easily when I wanted to measure out Melafix and Pimafix (works great too), but getting a needle might be a bit harder. :?

Current Update on BeeBoo and Orangey:

BeeBoo ate several more snails tonight, but seems to have no interest whatsoever in the shrimp that I used to feed him. I haven't seen him eating bloodworm for a few days, so not sure if he's gone totally off that or if he's still doing a little eating here and there. His belly got nice and fat tonight from the snails he ate, and I am just about out of snails now, so hopefully more will come tomorrow. It's his colouring that has me concerned, it's just not that bright colour that MBU's should have, and yet, last night when I looked at some photos I'd taken of BeeBoo when I first got him, his colouring wasn't very good then either, so I think that maybe poor BeeBoo has been dealing with something for quite a while (I got him back in August). :(

In regards to Orangey .... well maybe a little better news. I think he may have eaten another Endler. I don't see a male that was in there, so that's a good thing. I wish he'd eat the females, they are much fatter, and I think that would help fatten his belly up nicely.
My husband was supposed to go and get some earthworms today, but he's been in one of his nasty moods, so that didn't happen. Maybe tomorrow unless the husband reverts back to being retarded again. Too bad I can't be married to my puffers and my dogs, they make me much happier!!! :lol:
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by Pufferpunk »

Can't you go to the bait shop for these?
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by pufferpuggirl »

Yep, that's where he was going to go .... I'm not legal to drive, so unfortunately I am dependent on the retard for now. :(
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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by Pufferpunk »

Gosh, I could never talk about my wonderful, loving Hubby that way.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Re: Praziquantel & Metronidazole Baths?

Post by pufferpuggirl »

Pufferpunk wrote:Gosh, I could never talk about my wonderful, loving Hubby that way.

That's because you got a good one, I got one of the rejects I think. :(
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