Crash Course on Stunting- What does it mean for your fish?

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Re: Crash Course on Stunting- What does it mean for your fish?

Postby marksrush on Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:15 pm

Just a comment, not really a contribution to the thread. It's sad that it (stunting) is even an issue that comes up - but from personal experience, I know that too few people care about the welfare of their fish, only the amount of entertainment value they can get from their fun little swimming jewels. People at work ask me daily, "What kind of fish can live in a bowl (or 1-gallon plastic aquarium)?" (Usually they mean a betta bowl, which I'm embarrassed to admit, the boss insists on carrying.) If the customer is unlucky enough to ask *me* this question, however, they get my stock, short answer: "None. In my opinion, they shouldn't even make anything smaller than a 10-gallon." It all boils down to people wanting to do the minimum instead of the optimum - which is actually a societal problem, a basic approach to the world. Sad.
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Re: Crash Course on Stunting- What does it mean for your fish?

Postby RTR on Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:49 pm

I do strongly agree with that. But stuting and inappropriate care are the rule, not the the exception in this hobby. It is really why I stay on the boards - and why I tend to do only species tanks. I know how long fish can live if halfway decently cared for. Our wet pets can outlive their wild cousins many-fold. It is sad that those fish in the hobby very seldom do that. The part of it that really gets me is that what I consider appropriate care is easier than the upkeep of any "community" (what I call Noah's Ark tanks or confetti tanks). They also last a lot longer.

My wife sat down and figured out how old goldfish is- it is over 20 years old now.
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Re:

Postby hermionejanepotter12 on Sat Oct 09, 2010 2:55 pm

Meander wrote:As to whether the internal organs continue to grow out of proportion to the body size, I'm a little skeptical. However, I do believe that the poor stunted guys can suffer organ damage or failure which while different in cause is similar in result.

A dear friend and I stole a starving and mistreated puppy that our vet later told us was a 6 month old puppy and should have been nearing two thirds her adult size. She was very, very small and could not stand on her own. Eventually she fattened up and walked again though she always ran a bit oddly. She lost 4 teeth at two years old though her nutrition since adoption (theft) had been impeccable. She never reached full size and died of an enlarged heart at 4 years old. She should have reached 12-14 years at least. Her last three and a half years were good. If she was in pain it never showed. I guess my point is if the fish were mine, I'd just give it excellent care until it died and give it the best life it could have regardless of whether it was a shortened life or not.

I doubt the shark's internal organs are squeezing together inside his body. I doubt he is suffering now that he's safe and well cared for. So just treat him well and don't worry too much about his future. It's all you can do for him.

thank you i feel much better about keeping my cichlid and puffer you put my worrys to rest thank you very much
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Re: Crash Course on Stunting- What does it mean for your fish?

Postby Pufferpunk on Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:21 pm

That is just one person's opinion. Please read what RTR posted. He has been keeping fish for over 50 years & is our best mentor here.

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Re: Crash Course on Stunting- What does it mean for your fish?

Postby RTR on Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:49 pm

There is no published evidence that I have ever seen on the organ growth versus somatic growth theory. However, it is widely accepted (including by me), that stunted fish have shorter lifespans than than they could/should in captivity. Clown loaches can (and therefore should IMHO) live into their 40s in captivity. Midsized puffers can push 20 and likely can top that figure. The large majority of captive fish are moderately to severely stunted.

Stunting is not always only or just tank size and upkeep. My old goldfish cull.feeder is now over 20, but the early stunting was likely in part genetic, equally at least tank size. The water conditions and feeding were fine, just too small. The move up in tank size came much too late for proper size. But being a singleton, not overfeeding is relatively easy, there is no stress from other fish, adequate but not generous swimming room (for his size, not for the size he should be). He is kept too warm (mid to upper 70s w/o heater), but otherwise tank management is good.

Space, water quality, stress, foods and feeding, all impact lifespan and terminal size. We have to try to get it all right all the time, and nobody is perfect. But we do need to try.
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Re:

Postby Phoenix91 on Mon May 16, 2011 9:19 pm

reginator wrote:I have a staffy surlaW who was born half the size of her sibs without fur and with her back legs deformed. I was told by the breeder that he intended to destroy her due to the fact that she would never be healthy and would probably die within a year, so I took her. Well, 6,000 pounds sterling and two years later she had fur and could run and play like any other dog, and is still with me now at the grand age of 12, very energetic and my local vet reckons she'll live at least another couple of years. One of my other dogs is a "banned" dog (mastiff/pit bull cross) and I rescued (read "stole") her from abusive owners at about 8 months old. She cost a whopping great 11,000 pounds over the course of 3 years to put right, and now is 100% healthy. I guess that most things can be put right with care and devotion as long as it's caught early, and if not at least you can ensure that the animal is as happy as possible for the time it lives, a fine result for an animal that would otherwise lead a very sad short life. I take my hat off to any who think about their animals happiness first, and even if your efforts fail, the animal appreciates what you do :wink:



I don't know anything about stunting, sorry, but i have to say i agree with this 100%. I also applaud anyone who want the best for their animal companions. I have a horse that has hip and back problems, most owners would have sold him or gotten rid of him by now; i was even told by a trainer that i should take him to the sale and get what i could for him (in other words give him away to the meat buyers). I still have him 5 years later and while he does still have issues he's the best horse i know. your fish is lucky to have you looking out for him and trying to make his life better.
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