Puffer growth in captivity

[las]

Do u guys believe that oxygen level plays a big role in these fish not attaining the same size as they do in the wild? I'm starting to believe this a big factor. Obviously there are others. I think I want to do everything I can to maximize oxygen levels. So, I think a large vegetable filter is what I'm doing.

Having said that, would a remote DSB in the vegetable filter tank contradict that goal? Don't they take up a lot of oxygen?

[Pufferpunk]

Didn't I answer this somewhere else?

[las]

I asked why u thought that smaller captive puffer size was because of small tank size. I am trying to understand why that is. It seemed like u thought i wasnt clear so I am curious what other people think. I'm not trying to irritate anyone. Why do these guys never reach the same size as they do in the wild?

[Pufferpunk]

As I said before all fish should match or even exceed their wild counterpart's sizes.

[bertie 83]

I agree, if properly housed they will easily outgrow their wild cousins

[Iliveinazoo]

It's probably due to a large number of factors:

1. Pollution i.e. high ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.
2. PH.
3. Oxygen and CO2.
4. Trace elements.
5. Salinity requirements and if swings in salinity are required (for brackish species).
6. Whether temperature swings are required.
7. Captive fish doesn't live long enough to reach full size.
8. Water hardness.
9. Water conductivity.
10. Space.
11. How often they breed.
12. Diet.
13.Disease.

Some of the above we can control easily but others we can't

[Pufferpunk]

Moved to Gen Discussion, since this topic covers all puffer species (actually any fish).

[Pufferpunk]

Moved to Gen Discussion, since this topic covers all puffer species (actually any fish).

[RTR]

IMHO & IME captive fish should and can easily equal or exceed wild size. The requirements are straight-forward: Everything must be right for the fish. Tank, water quality, current, aquascape, temperature, light cycles, water mineral content (hardness, salinity, etc.), lowest possible pollution levels (unoxidized metabolite plus nitrates and organic), lowest possible stresses (huge category - sounds/vibrations, incompatible tankmates, erratic care and feeding, erratic water upkeep,etc.). All of that plus good feeding. In other words, everything you have ever heard about the captive husbandry of fish.

FYI: Well kept captive fish far out-live fish in the wild. If properly housed, they also meet or exceed wild size.

The worst possible thing you can do for a captive fish IMHO & IME is to "move up in tank size as the fish "needs" it.

Many folk will disagree with me, but IME the second worst thing you can do is keep "community" tanks.

Also FYI: Many captive fish exceed wild lifespans. Life in the wild is very short.

All IMHO & IME, your mileage may vary.

[las]

I really think that water quality, diet, tank size and oxygen are the major factors.
Millions of years ago, when dinosaurs, giant Mosquitos and dragon flies were around, the earth had higher oxygen levels. This was the main reason they attained giant sizes.

[las]

RTR-

I agree with you. There is no reason why no one I've ever heard of has had an 18" mappa. This is considerably smaller than the wild specimens. It must be that the tank size necessary, to keep high quality stable water parameters, is much bigger than average aquarists can keep. The only way to offset ur tank size is prob to do weekly 40% water changes.

Also, oxygen levels in the ocean are much higher compared to our tanks. Our tanks dissolved oxygen can get up to around 7 and that's about it. I really believe that a large vegetable filter with very high water flow is the best situation. I am going to forgo a DSB ,since it takes up valuable oxygen, and opt for huge skimmer, huge refugium with algae and lots of flow.

We'll see where that takes me. That water change schedule is gonna be really expensive tho!

[RTR]

Many to most well-planted tanks supersaturate with O2 routinely. In a tank system w/24/7 lighted (or opposite light cycle) algae- or veggie filter properly coupled to the display, oxygen lack is unlikely to have any occurrences. Someday, more hobbyist will realize that a single glass or plastic box is not an emulation of the wild. In practice it tends to be more like keeping a dog in a crate most of the time. If you want to attempt to emulate nature with less than swimming pool size vessels, you have to provide extra processes.

I am not at all an average fish-keeper. I want and expect my wet pets to equal or exceed wild life spans routinely, and commonly to exceed wild size. Those are not that difficult, they are just quite different from having a community tank in the den. I am more interested in having better conditions for specific fish and devising practical ways to support those conditions.

FWIW, YMMV

[las]

So we are talking about using a 1000 gallon tank for a solitary mappa puffer in my case, correct? In this scenario, does the water change % drop? I can't imagine doing 400 gal weekly water changes!

[Pufferpunk]

Of course it does!

[bertie 83]

A large microalgae refugium would aid your water quality allowing you to reduce your water changes slightly