WTB Amazon Puffer

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WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby captmicha on Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:32 pm

I'm looking for an Amazon Puffer.
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby bertie 83 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:09 am

This is a schooling species which should be kept in groups, thus needing a large tank for exercise. They also need regular dentistry even on a high crunch diet. Can't help you find one though.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby Pufftastic on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:00 am

This Aquabid seller often has SAPs for sale -- you could contact him. You'd have to pay for shipping though.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/ ... fb&Wetspot
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby captmicha on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:01 am

Thanks, I know. Although they may not require dentistry with the correct diet.
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby nmonks on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:30 am

Colomesus asellus may or may not be a true "schooling" species as such, but Bertie 83 is right about them doing better in groups than singly. Because you're unlikely to mix them with other midwater fish, you may as well keep a fair number. Let's say you get a 30 gallon/110 litre aquarium -- the minimum in my opinion, given their activity level -- you could easily keep half a dozen specimens in that tank. Perhaps even a couple more with strong filtration and lots of water changes.

In any case, Colomesus asellus is a strongly seasonal import, and you're unlikely to see them in the shops until mid summer. That's typical of South American wild-caught fish. I can't remember if it's because that's the dry season or the wet season, but one way or another from mid summer until about November is when you see the majority of the South American fish. You do see some fish outside this period, but not as many, and with less diversity, because outside this period it's harder to collect fish in the forest.

Cheers, Neale
Last edited by nmonks on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby captmicha on Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:39 am

I don't intend on keeping them singly..
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby bertie 83 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:59 pm

Can you really keep 6 in a 30? I am not trying to contradict mr monks, but that seems excessive to me.
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby nmonks on Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:13 pm

I'd imagine so. They only get to about 6 cm in length under aquarium conditions. So I'd treat them much like a fairly active barb of similar size, like a Tiger Barb.

I had no problems with three specimens in a 180-litre aquarium already stocked with a big, messy catfish and various other bits and bobs. Admittedly, that tank had relatively high levels of filtration and I used rainwater (in part) to keep nitrate levels low through regular water changes.

The length of the tank and water quality are the two limiting factors here. I'm very leery of tall ("breeder") aquaria and would definitely not use such a tank in this situation. But something a good 90-100 cm long should be easily big enough for a small group of SAPs.

Others may have stronger opinions on this than me.

Cheers, Neale
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby captmicha on Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:19 pm

Would keeping them with banjo catfish be a problem? None of my other fishes even notice my banjos but I wouldn't want them to be picked on by the puffers.
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby nmonks on Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:44 pm

Banjos are precisely the sorts of catfish I wouldn't keep with them. Why? Because even though they are well hidden, their reaction to threats is to stay still and hide. Puffers are adapted to seeking out hidden prey (big, mobile eyes and sharp wits!) so if one decides a banjo cat is worth nibbling, it'll seek it out. Banjos can't really swim away reliably and regularly. Corydoras are another catfish I've found get nipped by SAPs without much hesitation.

The cats that work well with SAPs seem to be those that hide away inside caves and have sufficient presence to shoo away any overly-curious SAP, large loricariids for example. My school of Dwarf Synos worked well too, but Synos do seem to have an ability to fend off trouble, as has been noted by cichlid experts like Paul Loiselle. Still, I wouldn't risk SAPs with Synodontis euptera!

Cheers, Neale

captmicha wrote:Would keeping them with banjo catfish be a problem? None of my other fishes even notice my banjos but I wouldn't want them to be picked on by the puffers.
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby captmicha on Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:58 pm

They'll get their own tank then. Thanks for letting me know. Maybe Apistos would make good tank mates, it seems like they require similar conditions.
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby bertie 83 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:37 pm

They are rounder and messier than barbs tho. I like understocked, overfiltered tanks. Pushing boundaries can end in tears. Don't get me wrong Neil knows his stuff, I just have to disagree on this one though
It's amazing how easy maintenance is. If done regularly and thoroughly
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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby RTR on Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:13 am

I'm afraid that i have to very strongly disagree w/nmonks on overstocking SAPs. Any fish which in captive conditions reaches only one-half its wild maximum length is stunted, period. Stunting is never an optimum condition. If you cannot or will not keep a fish well or properly, IMHO you should not keep it at all. Filtration and water changes short of full flow-though systems (quite rare in the hobby) do not and cannot compensate for simple space and volume. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If I cannot or will not do it right, I don't do it at all.

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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby Pufferpunk on Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:28 am

++++1000! There is absolutely NO reason a fish shouldn't reach it's wild size or even larger, in the proper housing.

Also, unless you are prepared to supply snails daily to these fish as 90% of it's diet, assume you will be doing dentistry on them every 4-6 months.
You are getting sleepy... you only hear the sound of my voice... you must do water changes... water changes... water changes... water changes...

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Re: WTB Amazon Puffer

Postby nmonks on Thu Jun 07, 2012 5:02 pm

RTR wrote:I'm afraid that i have to very strongly disagree w/nmonks on overstocking SAPs. Any fish which in captive conditions reaches only one-half its wild maximum length is stunted, period.

My understanding is that the maximum reported length of Colomesus asellus, 15 cm, is based on the older literature, and while repeatedly quoted, there seem to be no modern records of specimens anywhere like that size. I've yet to see any captive specimens above 8 cm, and that specimen was in a public aquarium. I do feel much confusion exists in the literature between this species and Colomesus psittacus, and consequently reports of maximum length may reflect that larger species rather than the SAP.

In any event, I'm not recommending "overstocking" a 30 gallon tank with SAPs. I do honestly feel that properly maintained, you could manage 6 specimens in a tank that size. We're only talking about, what, 6 x 2.5 = 15 inches of fish in total, for a 30 gallon tank. Such an aquarium wouldn't be overstocked. For what it's worth, I believe this species is less nervous and less nippy when kept in a busy aquarium with other fish to distract it. I do feel a group of 6 specimens in a 30 gallon tank would be happier than 3 specimens in a 60 gallon tank. But I admit that that's subjective, and based on my own experiences only.

RTR wrote:Stunting is never an optimum condition.

Arguably true, but it surely doesn't necessarily mean its harmful either. Very many fish stunt naturally in the wild; here in England you never see Crucian Carp at their maximum recorded size, and most seem to reach less than half that size, even in what are perceived to be ideal conditions. Such patterns are seen again and again and again in wild fish populations. Ecophenotypical variation is absolutely standard and definitely not lethal in fish physiology and development. It seems to be an adaptive trait that allows them to survive and prosper in the widest possible range of environments.

Oh, and I'm not recommending stunting as an aim in itself.

RTR wrote:If I cannot or will not do it right, I don't do it at all.

Fair enough, but I hope you aren't implying I'm not able to keep fish "right" just because I'm not keeping them the way you do!

Cheers, Neale
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